Missouri Uses A Late Run To Knock Off Kansas
by Owen on Feb 4, 2012 11:23 PM CST
in Kansas Jayhawk Basketball 2011-12
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PrintNot much to say about this one. Kansas played well for 37 minutes on Saturday night. It wasn't great, but it was good enough and Kansas got what they needed out of Tyshawn Taylor early and Thomas Robinson in the second half. In fact the Jayhawks looked poised to take the final contest in Columbia with about three minutes to go.
Then it just took a turn for the worse. As much as you hate to lose this one, it was a pretty classic finish to the rivalry in Columbia. The Tigers don't come out on top in this one nearly as often as Kansas, but they have made a few good Tiger memories knocking off ranked Jayhawk teams over the years. This was another one and a pretty fitting end to one half of this rivalry.
This one was obviously a little different considering Missouri was the higher ranked team and favored in this one, but it was still pretty clear that this was THE game for Missouri this season. The good news is that Missouri does have to return the favor and make the trip to Lawrence in a few weeks.
Now it's on to a road contest in Waco as things don't get any easier for the Jayhawks. A loss on the road against Baylor would mean that next Saturday's Baylor @ Missouri game would decide the new leader in the Big 12 race as we head into the home stretch.
Since the beginning we've known this was a Kansas team that was not on the same level as years past. Fortunately they've found a way to put themselves right there in the hunt and that's just part of being Kansas. But after this one and a series of narrow escapes by Missouri and Baylor, it's pretty clear that Kansas isn't getting any help on this journey. The Jayhawks are going to have to do the work themselves if they want to win an eighth straight.
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we choked a bit down the stretch, no doubt
but the two charge calls in particular, and the officiating overall, were an absolute joke.
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."
--Albert Einstein
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Feb 4, 2012 11:27 PM CST reply actions
In the first half we did it to ourselves with the officiating.
Yes I do think the TRob charge was a bad call and everyone has said as much. But we still let that one slip away and I just refuse to completely blame officiating because we definitely beat ourselves late. We’re a better team and we have a better coach. We left the door open and Missouri made some pretty big plays late.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Please post these calls that were a joke.
Denmon blew up, that was the difference.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Feb 4, 2012 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's a fucking joke to blame the officials.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Feb 4, 2012 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
20 fouls on us and 10 on MU?
I have great respect for you Warden, and we had plenty of chances to overcome the foul differential, but I believe it had a significant effect on the game.
by hunter s. royal on Feb 4, 2012 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
it certainly did
but at the same time it’s on us to overcome that and we didn’t. late game non-execution + denmon’s great night + yes some calls = a loss. oh well.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Very significant
complaining about officiating is not going to bring back the last 2 minutes of the game but claiming it didn’t have a major impact on that game is silly. Not just at the end (though if we just had those calls back we’d be a much happier bunch right now).
I agree that it's a joke to solely blame the officials
I think it would be hard to find as many borderline calls that went KU’s way as went MU’s way. And in a game this close, every factor matters.
From CBSSports
F Thomas Robinson and G Tyshawn Taylor were called for charges in the final two minutes. "I was told I don’t want to see the tape by a couple people that watched it and were unbiased," coach Bill Self said. "They certainly weren’t Kansas people. That goes with the territory. It didn’t come down to one call."
Insanity is just a state of mind.
by KTJ on Feb 5, 2012 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
If Self blames refs (which he never does)
Then yeah… somethings fishy. The one charge call on TRob was laughable
Shit happens when you win championships
Yeah, I think that was the loudest I've ever shouted "NOOOO!" before in my lifetime.
TRob hit him, he fell down, and I saw the ref starting to call if an offensive foul.
Supporter of Carlos Austin Boozer, and I don't want to see Dwight Howard in a Bulls uniform. Call me crazy.
by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 5, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
There were some questionable calls and even 1 awful call.
But every game has those and usually the home team gets the benefit of the doubt in such calls.
The refs did not lose the game for us. Our team lost the game with bad decisions at the end and Missouri won the game with some ridiculous shooting from Marcus Denmon.
Very difficult to look past the charge on TRob
However, a little thing called clock management would have all but sealed the game at the end
by jhwk316 on Feb 4, 2012 11:34 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Definitely more upset with how we lost this game, rather than the loss itself.
Hoping we can come out Wednesday and put Baylor away early. Not sure my heart can take another finish like tonight.
There will be a great deal of learning our players can do with the film of this game.
Our decision-making at the end was pretty poor and I am sure the coaches will explain why to our players so they can do better next time.
We now have no room for error. Every game is now a must-win. Missouri’s remaining schedule is not a very difficult one.
Yes, whining about the fouls aside,
(which I’ve done plenty of tonight) the disturbing part is the non composure the last 3 minutes. Self played some odd lineups to get us to the half without anyone picking up 3 fouls so we could go full bore the second half, and it worked out quite well until the ugliness of the last few minutes.
by hunter s. royal on Feb 4, 2012 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
Mizzou fan here (and not here to troll either).
I agree that if the venue were reversed, and in Lawrence, there’s a 0% chance they get called. It was a little bit of home-cooking on some calls that probably could’ve gone either way, but the ref’s sided with the home team. There’s a reason that Big 12 basketball has one of the highest home win % in the country. This game reminded me a lot of the last time we beat you all in 2009, where we held the Jayhawks scoreless during a 3 minute run near the end of the game.
In response to Owen, I will agree that Bill Self is the better coach. If my friend at Duke is to be believed, Frank Haith is overachieving like a mo-fo this year. Regardless, I, and most Missouri fans will probably agree, believe that if Mike Anderson was our coach, there is no way in hell we pull this game out. I fully expect we’ll get our asses handed to us in Lawrence, but I hope the game is as good as tonight’s was, and sincerely hope that we set up some non-conference basketball game in KC. I completely understand why we might not play each other in the foreseeable future, as does Stormin’ Norman, and even though you may hold a tiny advantage in the H2H basketball record, the Mizzou-KU basketball game is too good to stop playing.
by TheHamburglar on Feb 5, 2012 12:09 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
+1 for be being a sport
well played
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Well...
…perhaps you guys should have thought of that before you decided to abandon the rivalry to become the new whipping boy in the SEC.
It was not unclear that we would almost certainly would choose not to schedule you if you went through with it, but you did it anyway.
You can’t scream “I want a divorce!” in one breath and then “but we still get to have sex, right?” in the next.
by kuoirad on Feb 5, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
To be honest...
the decision they made to leave the Big 12 probably had nothing to do with BB.
But decisions like that have consequences.
Agree.
I appreciate the respect in the Hamburglar’s post, but it makes zero sense to keep playing MU after they destabilized the conference by making every attempt to jump to the Big 10 & then the sec.
by hunter s. royal on Feb 5, 2012 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Basically all I meant was that I hope we will eventually start back up the MU-KU rivalry,
but as I mentioned I completely understand why it might take probably a decade. Once again, if the roles were reversed, then Mizzou would’ve done the same thing. Honestly, I really like the move to the SEC, but tonight it really hit me for the first time that KU will never play another basketball game in Columbia. Ever. KU’s got the upper hand on basketball tradition, but there’s nothing like when basketball season comes around, with a home-home Mizzou-KU series. That’s the biggest disappointment in the whole conference expansion thing is all I really meant with my original post
by TheHamburglar on Feb 5, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Really? Trying to bring an olive branch about college sports losing a top 3 rivalry,
but you obviously didn’t read the first thing I posted above. Yeah, I understand that KU has a much better basketball tradition, OK. Yeah, Mizzou hasn’t come out on the winning end of too many basketball games, but it never takes away from the intensity from either side, and even you can’t deny that
by TheHamburglar on Feb 5, 2012 4:23 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, you beat us about as much as Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, etc have over the past 10 years
Yeah the Border War is awesome, and I’ve loved the rivalry with MU, but lets not pretend its been anything but name only. Don’t let tonight fool you, we own you. And everyone in the league. And midwest. And please don’t forget it. Because in a few weeks, after we’ve murdered you at home, and you’d dropped some road games to bullshit teams, we’ll celebrate an 8th straight league crown. And I’ll drink some champagne. In honor of you. Hamburglar.
Shit happens when you win championships
^^This is why we left to the SEC^^
Here’s how a typical Mizzou-KU fan conversation goes in KC:
MU: “how’s football going…(snicker)”
KU: “about as good as you basketball team’s been historically.”
Tried to come over to say how much I’ll miss playing KU, but of course the 2 responses are about how much better KU basketball is than Mizzou’s. I’m not trying to argue that at all, and literally mentioned that in my first post. Didn’t come over here looking for an argument, just to bemoan over the loss of the Border War.
BTW, there’s a reason the Mizzou-KU rivalry has been so vicious, and not because of the scores of the field. It’s a part of our history, and our heritage.
by TheHamburglar on Feb 5, 2012 4:49 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I love the football card
Missouri has been very marginally better than Kansas, who we readily admit has been a terrible program most years. And you’re marginally better. Congrats I guess.
As far as “that’s why we left”, that’s the biggest pile of steaming poo I’ve heard since the 2 whistles down the stretch. You left because your egos were hurt that the Big 10 didn’t want you and the Big 12 didn’t care if you stayed or left. That’s pretty much the Missouri MO.
I wish it was the reason we didn’t care to play you any longer, but it has nothing to do with your general douchiness.
“marginally better”? While Kansas has been descending to division 2 level football, Mizzou has won 48 games in the last 5 years.
Anyway, stick to basketball, because your mind reading skills are awful. Mizzou’s move to the SEC is primarily about money and security and being treated like an actual partner rather than some convenient scheduling. If you can’t understand that it’s your shortcoming, not ours.
by Wan Ihite on Feb 5, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
1-2 game lead
is the definition of marginal.
you mean head to head over the entire existence of the programs. Yes. In more recent history, not so close.
So in one breath
It’s all about the historical rivalry but in the next it’s about the last 5 years. Awesome.
What started this off
MU: "how’s football going…(snicker)"
KU: "about as good as you basketball team’s been historically."
So the original quote actually pitted recent football success against traditional basketball dominance…
But now that you mention it, while both football programs have waxed and waned over the years (mid 90’s Mizzou football was nearly as bad as kansas football is now… nearly), Mizzou has overall had a more successful football program. Mizzou has been to 29 bowls, Kansas to 12. But, you say, their head to head record is fairly even isn’t it? Yeah, it’s always been an such an intense rivalry that the teams would get up for each other and perform at a level that would belie their overall season-level quality. That’s kind of an impressive thing.
And yet
in basketball the record isn’t remotely close. In the last 5 years, in the last 100 years. It’s just not close.
Never said it was. Mizzou’s football has historically been better than Kansas, but neither of them were elite very often.
Kansas has some very hard to imitate history with basketball (starting with a certain canadian import who coached his last ever games for KU in columbia against the Tigers), and that kind of thing is self-sustaining. Nobody is pretending otherwise.
Advice
Don’t come over and post on someone’s blog immediately after a loss.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 5, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
hunter. you're not being rational.
Everyone BUT Mizzou destabilized the conference. Just read any reputable news pieces covering the timeline.
1. Nebraska refused to vote for revenue sharing.
2. Nebraska / Colorado leave.
3. A&M joins the SEC
4. LHN (I know KU sucks at football so not much of an impact, but for everyone else)
5. Texas, OU, OSU, and TT all but jump into bed with the PAC-12.
All of that preceded anything Mizzou did. I know you hate Missouri, feel free, but your revisionist history is bullshit.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Rocky Balboa once told me, "Nothing is real if you don't believe in who you are."
by Kpz1234 on Feb 5, 2012 12:53 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is why I'll miss Missouri
Completely revisionist.
by bigreed on Feb 5, 2012 1:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
MU did everything possible to jump to the Big 10 last year.
They got butthurt because Nebraska beat them to the punch. They had a chance to jump to the sec this year, so they took it. They gave no thought to the rivalry, no thought to the Big 12, and no thought to the economic damage to the KC area. They only concerned themselves with their own ego. You made a choice, live with.
by hunter s. royal on Feb 5, 2012 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
if by “did everything possible” you mean "when pundits discussed the possibility Missouri repeated said “we’re proud members of the big 12”", then yes, MO did everything possible.
The big 12 has been dysfunctional for decades. Staying in a bad gig isn’t loyalty, it’s stupidity. But you guys didn’t get the choice, so you’re stuck here doing whatever Texas wants, and pretending it’s because you like it, and you’re some kind of saintly team player. Yeah, good luck with that.
by Wan Ihite on Feb 5, 2012 6:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
With the 3rd tier money
we make, it’s hard to argue that this isn’t the best spot for KU.
"All of that preceded anything Mizzou did"?
I certainly spread blame to others as well, but this statement is crazy.
by KSinDC on Feb 5, 2012 1:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You flatter Missouri far too much if you think that our coming or going had any particular influence over the viability and stability of the big 12. I like to think we were a solid part of it, but it was made painfully clear a long long time ago that we are not the straw that stirs the drink, let alone on anything approaching an equal footing with the power players. If the B10 whispering in Mike Alden’s ear is enough to blow the whole conference up, then that is a conference with far bigger problems. I mean, can you imagine the B10 imploding just because Mike Silve had a few quiet words with Iowa?
by Wan Ihite on Feb 5, 2012 6:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Big 10 whispering in Mike Alden's ear?
Now I’ve heard it all.
There were behind-the scenes conversations. Of course there were. Everybody talks to everybody, and you’re a fool if you believe otherwise. But look at the official statements, and I defy you to find any Mizzou official say anything other than that they were proud members of the big 12.
Show you
that the Big 10 was never really interested in Missouri? Well, they didn’t take you despite your entire state begging them to.
show me that no Mizzou official never publicly said anything other than we were committed to the big 12. It’s a matter of public record, if it’s out there you should be able to show me up completely here without a whole lot of difficulty.
Mind reading the B10’s intentions is a mugs game. Clearly they thought there were some pros and cons to Mizzou, and in the end they came down on the side or ‘no’, at least for then. That’s all we can know for sure, everything else is conjecture and hand waving.
Is Jay Nixon not a Missouri official?
“I’m not going to say anything bad about the Big 12, but when you compare Oklahoma State to Northwestern, when you compare Texas Tech to Wisconsin, I mean, you begin looking at educational possibilities that are worth looking at,” Nixon told the AP.
“If a significant conference with a long history of academic and athletic excellence talks about you joining them, you shouldn’t just say, ’We’re from the old Big 8 and I remember when … If they want to talk, we should talk, and we should listen.”
by bigreed on Feb 5, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Not a Mizzou official, no. If you start holding schools responsible for every dumb thing that gets said by elected officials in that state then we are going to be able to have a LOT of fun at each other’s expenses. I hear you have some very enlightened school boards over there ;)
The Governor
appoints the board. It’s not sane to argue that he is not a “University of Missouri official”.
He has no line authority for university decision making. Seriously, you don’t want to go here, because if I start dragging in dumb things that Kansas governors have said we can both be here a while.
Go ahead
The idiocy that is Sam Brownback has nothing to do with this conversation. The curators serve at the pleasure of the governor. Because of this he is absolutely a power player in what happens with those schools.
I think Texas
just admits it. As ‘arms length’ as you can be knowing that the guy has the power to replace you on a whim. What he says absolutely has a ton of power in that room.
Also kind of funny
that he pointed out academics when talking about the Big 10 but seemed to also be perfectly OK with leaving the Big 12 for the SEC. I like and voted for Jay Nixon, but he’s all over the place when it comes to his alma mater.
Jay Nixon has only as much power around the University of Missouri as he is legally entitled to
He’s very unpopular on campus because of various promises that he’s made that have fallen through and budget cuts during his term.
If you think Jay Nixon had input on which conference we joined then you’re very, very mistaken.
That's about the only respectful way to post here after this game.
Nice job.
I wish the conference rivalry was continuing, but I think MU fans are fooling themselves if they think a non-conference December game would come close to replacing this.
agreed here.
Even remove the pissing contest over business decisions and who’s ending the rivalry. It won’t ever have the same level of intensity when the stakes are lowered.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
probably not quite the same, no. But other schools seem quite capable of maintaining OOC historic rivalry games that remain plenty intense, so unless you think there’s something particularly bloodless and faint about your fans, I don’t see why it couldn’t work here too. It’s an empirical question: They’ve been tried, and they work.
True but...
most of those didn’t start as conference games. I’m not a history expert but if we just look at conference departures in the last two years I can’t find one rivalry that has been maintained during those changes.
CU and Nebraska don’t play. Nebraska and Oklahoma don’t play. Texas and Texas A&M aren’t going to play. Really Syracuse is the ONLY one that has said they would continue playing Georgetown and/or St. Johns most likely but that was just Boeheim giving his initial thought and he admitted that.
Maybe I’m missing some still but I guess I understand that OOC rivalry games have been successful, but did many of them start as in conference and move to OOC? Not recently at least that I can think.
And again, not claiming to be an expert, just looking at recent history and the fact that not many of these schools have elected to continue any sort of OOC play.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I think there’s a couple going in the carolinas too. They’re not the rule when people leave conferences, but they do happen.
Also the KU/MU rivalry isn’t just the regular “we played a few big games over the last few years and man those guys suck”. It’s one of the oldest and bitterest in the country. I understand there’s financial reasons that Kansas doesn’t want to keep it up right now, and that’s your collective prerogative, it just seems sad is all. It’s one heck of a baby going out with the bathwater.
Georgia Tech and Clemson
are in the same conference.
Pittsburgh
is a private school. And both WVU and Pitt left the Big East. Next.
Have they agreed to continue even?
I thought they weren’t going to play.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
which is why I think our game eventually comes back.
I understand that we’re under pressure not to play and it’s kind of a Big 12/Kansas decision. But I think eventually that might subside and we could see some KU MU games return. Still won’t matter as much though.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I don't think it does
MU is on an island if the Big 12 doesn’t play them. That has positive impact on the other area schools. Especially as playing it doesn’t bring KU much in a way of upside.
On an island in the most successful football conference in the country? Sounds like a hell of a fate.
by Wan Ihite on Feb 5, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Regionally
MU going to the SEC is a positive for Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska and Iowa State.
As if
any player from KC is more likely to go to Alabama and Florida now than they were a year ago? The chance of seeing their son close to home one time in their college career probably doesn’t change much.
The difference is that now they’ll see more Florida and Alabama games on TV, and they’ll know that if they go there then it’ll get a lot more local media play.
Not the same thing as being there in person to see the games, it’s true, but they also bring a level of reputation cache that the local schools can’t come close to matching in football.
And Oklahoma and Nebraska called
and asked you to look up the term proximity bias. Lots of that going around with Missouri fans these days.
Where's the graphic
of the line going over the MU fan’s head? Proximity bias is not respecting what you’re used to as much as what you’re not used to.
Similar to Missouri fans being thrilled they get to ‘play the NC in their house!!!!’. Probably happened 10 times with OU, NU or Texas.
are we talking about the same thing? Mizzou used to recruit a lot of players out of Texas, and they’d come because they would get to go play close to their families for games each year. Now Mizzou is switching to do the same thing in Florida.
In theory if there were local talent in the midwest, Florida could now show up here and come say “play in the sunshine, and you’ll get two games in your career where all your family can come and see you play a local game.”
Huge difference
The Big 12 IS Texas.
I also don’t know of too many local players that turned down Florida or Alabama to go to Kansas or Missouri in the current state.
Sore?
You’re the one on our board. I’m just explaining why it’s bad business to continue to play Missouri.
I think you realize the implications as well (at least on some level) and that’s behind the Missouri fan crying that’s been going on.
You guys haven’t been near as overboard grumpy as the K State guys, I hand you that. Not entirely sure what’s gotten into them to be honest. But I definitely see a lot of loud harumphing and “Well see if WE cares!!1” coming out from the west.
And yeah, Mizzou fans are sore to see it go, I admit that. We’re quite open about loving the rivalry.
for me
not wanting to continue the rivalry is all about loving it. I love it too much to see a cursory version of it played out in a meaningless non-conference game.
Use the forks
In football I’m not too worried about that at all. Seasons are so short that every game matters a LOT. That’s why people get so upset about how many cupcakes there are or aren’t.
Even in basketball, there’s only been a handful of seasons where the rivalry game has had any real significance for the outcome of the conference, yet it’s managed to stay plenty bitter…. so i’m not overly worried about that one either
look
non-con basketball games just don’t matter. The Kentucky-North Carolina game earlier this year, about as marquee a matchup as there can be, got a significantly worse TV draw than the Conference USA championship game. You can’t tel me playing in basketball in a non-con format won’t be a huge dropoff in terms of importance and interest
Use the forks
cared, yes
but how do you think it compared to how much UNC fans care about the Duke games?
Use the forks
Or even NCState, Georgia Tech
or Maryland. Noncon games are fun but the only great noncon basketball rivalry is Louisville v. Kentucky and that’s because both sides hold up their end of the bargain most years.
And if Kentucky switched to the same conference as UNC, they STILL wouldn’t have the same intensity as the Duke games.
but like bigreed says
I think even the UNC-Maryland game brought out more emotion in Tar Heek fans
Use the forks
It's a bigger deal
for Missouri. Plain and simple we have other rivals. It is the biggest for sure, but we view it differently because we have other big rivals.
At first
when they left, I never wanted to play them again. Now, I don’t understand why we don’t. Fuck it if it has no financial gain for us, it’s basketball and we make the most money possible on basketball every year. We can do whatever we want.
That game and lead up last night was one of the most fun in regular season I’ve had in awhile. It sucked in the end because of how we lost but after a night’s sleep I’m ready to move on to Lawrence. I say we keep playing.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 5, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Financial gain is long term
based on expanding our (and KStates and Iowa States) market at their expense.
Pitt
is semi-private anyway. The second point is most important.
South Carolina-Clemson
but it’s in-state so a totally different deal. Georgia-Georgia Tech was in jeopardy when GTech left the SEC due to academic concerns but being in-state rivals kept it going.
I have always heard that if KU K-State ended up elsewhere...
that the rivalry in that situation would likely survive. I think you see it considered as a more appropriate business decision with in-state situations.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Exactly
because in-state schools are still partners regardless of conference. That is not the case with out-of-state rivalries and why they never survive a conference shuffle.
It makes perfect sense that Missouri wants to continue the rivalry because it maintains their relevance in the region. It also makes perfect sense that the remaining Big 12 schools are uninterested in doing that.
Here's the thing.
I’m sitting here this morning as a Kansas fan and I’m honestly not sure I care to play again. The thing is, we’re expected to win the game. Even when we are the underdog, like last night, people think Kansas is going to win. Win that game and no one cares. Lose and it becomes Doug Flutie, the hand of god, Christian Laettner and the immaculate reception rolled into one. Hell based on last night you’d think this thing was over and the return trip to Lawrence wasn’t already on the schedule. Now that’s not everyone, but it’s a big portion.
Reverse that to football. I bet you hate Reesing to Meier or at least the big deal that we make out of it. Why? Well as several of my Missouri friends have pointed out, that game meant very little in the grand scheme of things for Missouri and we make it into this HUGE to do. It’s pretty annoying I’m sure.
I guess I just think that if it’s a move the SEC that makes sense for you and a move away from the rivalry that makes sense for us, then whatever.
Yes there are some good memories, but more than anything I remember the 3-4 times that we’ve been upset in Columbia and I never hear the end of it even after we run off 3 straight.
And I’m not trying to be antagonistic at all here, just giving you my perspective as someone who grew up on the Illinois Missouri border and experienced that rivalry and KU MU and I always grew up around a lot of MU folks.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I can see how you’d think that way in basketball. In football, I think Mizzou would be DELIGHTED to keep playing kansas. Those games are HUGE here. I can understand that kansas probably needs to take a few years out to win some games and build their program up again, because uncompetitive stompings won’t help the team much, but I’d be very hopeful that this game could recover when everyone has calmed down a bit, and kansas has maybe got its house in order some more.
yeah and I wasn't saying that MU would want to quit playing KU in football...
just comparing the emotional aspect I suppose. And yes, football is a no brainer right now. We need our non-con’s to count as W’s at the moment. I’m not saying we’d never beat MU but right now it isn’t smart.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
playing football in a packed arrowhead stadium (especially in KU non-suck years) is a financial lose for you guys? Explain.
The game was packed
Oh, if kansas were competitive again the house would be packed. You’d get people driving in from both ends, and the locals in the city seem to have a very polarized sports culture over it.
Not if it was noncon
I’m from St. Louis and for a lot of years my relatives tried to convince me that MU-UI was a similar rivalry. If so your argument is lost.
I agree with you
but for years Missouri fans from the eastern side of the state argued the opposite. I’m guessing you’re from the western side of the state judging by your agreement here and your reaction to the end of the rivalry.
Which is my point. The exact reason you don’t want it to end is the reason it is to KU’s best interest to end it.
me?
I’m Canadian :)
But this point isn’t overly controversial. If you google for people’s list of biggest college rivalries, you get national level sports observers rating Mizzou-KU as one of the top ones. Nobody ever said that about Mizzou and UI (apart from maybe a few local locals).
Disagree
Many of those lists include “Bragging Rights”. Perhaps not as high as the Border War but it’s usually on the list.
speak for yourself man
I’d be at that game if KU was respectable
by I need more Esteban on Feb 5, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
If we do get good enough
to want a challenge out-of-conference at Arrowhead my bet is we call Lincoln not Columbia.
CU/NU, NU/OU, UT/aTm
none of those games are Missouri-Kansas.
We’ll be playing again within five years, it’s just a matter of time.
tiny advantage?
even with the loss, Self is 17-4 against MU.
…Tiny advantage? We have ALWAYS consistently kicked your ass.
Yeah. Self is a better coach than Frank Heath.
Thanks for going out on a limb.
Shit happens when you win championships
I do think Haith has done a great job...
of taking the pieces that Anderson left behind and getting them to play better basketball I’ll give you that.
Definitely a great game yesterday, wish Kansas could have come out on the winning end but with about 6 minutes to go I told the group that I was watching with that regardless of the result the game delivered which was great to see.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Self is clearly a great coach, no questioning that. It’s really too early to say what we’ve got in Haith. He was in a no-win position in Miami, and so while there was no reason to expect much from him, there wasn’t much evidence to say he WASN’T pretty good. Clearly he’s been working some minor miracles so far this year with some good but previously fractured pieces left over from HCMA…. but whether he’s good or great or somewhere in between is early days to say. Ask again in another year or two or three.
agreed...
I think next year is one of those years where you’ll learn a lot. Having the number of seniors on the squad that you do has to help tremendously in Haith year one. I wonder what Mike Anderson is thinking these days?
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Pretty well said
Very much reminded me of 09 too
by hiphopopotamus on Feb 5, 2012 1:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This might be my longest post
but I have some thoughts…
I said earlier today that this was the biggest game since the National Championship (IMO). That is why I am still soooo pissed that we lost. I’m not going to talk about why we lost, because it really does not matter. It is a loss in the record books and that really sucks. It feels like we just lost to VCU or some other team in the tourney. However, that is what makes this situation unique. When I feel this shitty, it’s usually because we lost in the tourney and our season is over. It’s not over though. It’s not even close to over. So, in that sense I feel a little bit better. Obviously, we need to get better to get where we want to be though.
My second point is that I do not want this rivalry to end. Part of what makes being a KU fan so good is our bitter hatred toward rival. Yes it hurts when we lose, but I would rather experience heartbreak than apathy. And that is what I am worried about now that we might not continue this rivalry. Like I said earlier, I hadn’t been that anxious and excited for a game in a long time. Now I might never feel that feeling again in the regular season because our rival (and most disgusting team, of course) is leaving. I understand it’s not our fault, but it feels like we’re all getting punished because of it.
by Lucamachine on Feb 5, 2012 12:36 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
So you were not pumped at all...
for the Baylor game when they came into AFH with a 17-0 record on the year?
Because I was seriously pumped for that game.
Now I will admit I was even more pumped for this game, but most of that was because it was a chance to put ourselves in a position to win the Big 12 title and prevent Missouri from winning it on their final year in the Big 12. Only a small part of that was because it was Missouri. If Missouri had been unranked and not contending for the Big 12 title, I doubt I would have been nearly as pumped as I was for the Baylor game.
Are you really apathetic about all other games, except for Missouri?
I guess what I am saying is you have to move on. Missouri chose to leave. In fact, they have been trying to leave for a long time. They tried to go to the Big 10 first and when they could not swing that they decided the SEC was the most glorious place to be. Time to move on and forge some new rivalries. But let’s beat the tar out of them in AFH before they go and then say don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way to the SEC.
Wow
biggest game since the NC? The first of 2/3 meetings between the teams this year? We should have won the game, but this is certainly not even the biggest game of our year so far. And it likely won’t be one of the top 4 or 5 biggest games of the year when you look back on the season in the spring.
Yes I the Lawrence game will be bigger, especially now
but this was the biggest game for me since the national championship, because I haven’t been this upset over a loss since Bucknell. This game meant absolute shit in the big picture. We still control our own destiny for everything this year. I get it. But I wanted this win more than most of them. That’s it. Sorry, I got super psyched for a KU game. It’s just my opinion, you do not have to agree with me.
Let’s say we knew that we would never play MU again. Would you care a little bit more that we could possibly get swept this year? The last year that we EVER play them and they sweep us? It’s a possibility, and that is what made tonight’s game so important for me. It is also what makes the Lawrence game even bigger.
The game ended two hours ago
The Bucknell game was seven years ago. Let’s see how you feel in two weeks.
A huge part of why this game meant so much was the conference championship being at stake
I think at some point in the future, the rivalry is going to resume and a lot of people are going to surprised at how much less meaningful it is.
The rivalry as we’ve known it dies when MU leaves the conference, and no amount of non-conference scheduling going to bring it back
by KSinDC on Feb 5, 2012 2:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This
I completely agree.
The only time this “rivalry” will matter is if we play each other during the tourney. Other than that, playing them during the reg. season will just be another game. No title on the line, nothing. Just a win or loss.
At the end of the day, I’m disappointed they left the conference because it ends the rivalry as we all know it.
What? A girl who likes sports...INCONCEIVABLE!
by ladyjay78 on Feb 5, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
a real shame
That this rivalry is going away. Imagine no Duke – UNC game, no Ohio State – Michigan. A huge part of Kansas’ identity and MU’s is this bitter rivalry. Just sad.
by fairmont on Feb 5, 2012 12:58 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
A small part
of Kansas’s identity is the rivalry. Almost all of MU’s is. That’s why you see things like LICENSE PLATES in KC that say HATEKU. That’s essentially the reason most KU fans aren’t terribly heart broken and MU fans all are. We have other similar rivals.
by bigreed on Feb 5, 2012 1:01 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
money talks
it would be hard to see the rivalry go away based on the “you took the ball and walked away argument.” That’s what happened, but again, money talks.
It's not
at all what happened. Missouri left for money. Kansas is refusing to play Missouri because of money. College sports is a business.
there is one thing those two games have that this one won't in a few months
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
(besides having two successful programs involved, i mean)
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Two teams with final fours?
lolololol
Supporter of Carlos Austin Boozer, and I don't want to see Dwight Howard in a Bulls uniform. Call me crazy.
by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 5, 2012 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
Well that sucked...
but now we move on and return the favor in a few weeks.
Ed Snider is a crotchety old fuck.
That is all.
How about Missouri setting off fireworks inside a poorly ventilated building?
The whole first half looked like a phish concert. I shouldn’t be surprised the brain trust at mu didn’t think that one through. Way to represent your school on national tv
Yes, I am still bitter
Not a wise decision, but what can you expect from a Missouri education.
Did they show the fireworks going off on tv? I must have missed that part because I kept wondering at the beginning of the game why it looked smoky during the first half. Thought maybe the camera had some weird film on it.
Anyways, I was not a fan of the smoke for the first half either. It really played with my eyes and I couldn’t tell if a couple of the layups/dunks actually went in until we were running up the court.
What? A girl who likes sports...INCONCEIVABLE!
No don't
we don’t make t-shirts when we beat Missouri. It’s a different rivalry to them. That’s why we can’t understand their reactions.
So...
They’re aggy, and we’re Texas? ;)
by kuoirad on Feb 5, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty much
Aggie fans are crying even louder than MU fans because they realize they will be marginalized in the state if no one will play them to keep the relevancy going.
Say what you will, Aggie’s entire identity revolves around Texas – their school songs are more about bashing UT than they are about boosting themselves. It’s not even close to the same thing with Mizzou. The rivalry with KU is as delightful a plugin as you’d get, it’s great to have someone you love to hate, and I see NOTHING wrong with making tshirts celebrating defeats of whoever your biggest rival is.
If suspect that the reason Mizzou cares about this one a bit more is that KU cares more about basketball, which is where the games are less competitive, and MU cares more about football, where the games have been much more so… That’s entirely different than the big brother / small brother dynamic in Texas
Well they don't have any national titles, final 4s or big 12 titles
So I guess this is the peak of their program since they entered the Big 12. Let em have it.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 5, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Had we won the game last night
I’m going through a list of things I think I’d be doing today. Finding reasons to post at Rock M Nation doesn’t come anywhere near making the cut. Different strokes I guess.
Use the forks
by PenHawk on Feb 5, 2012 11:59 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
i can see why people would want to flock to a better site so i cant blame them
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
by fetch9 on Feb 5, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you think I’m here to gloat then say so and I’ll leave your thread alone. All I’m seeing here though is reasonable discussion. And I’ve seen RCT people coming over to RMN for that too, so I don’t know what you are complaining about.
not complaining
just wondering why, this morning, you thought to yourself “I’m going to find a reason to interact with KU fans the day after a big loss.” I’m not saying I’m going to ban you, just don’t understand that mentality.
Use the forks
Perspective?
To see if we are irrational fans that talk more about fouls and the reasons that our school is better than we do the actual play in the game?
I’ve been rather disappointed reading a lot of this thread.
by 2.1 seconds left on Feb 5, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair
ESPN has complained about the end game officiating than I’ve seen here.
so have all of the national guys i follow on twitter
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Coming off the heels
of last week’s non-goaltending call, college officials have had a tough week in the media.
I think you've been perfectly fine and feel free to continue.
So long as both sides are remaining respectful of the other argument even when we don’t agree I think we’re good.
Long and short though, I’m with 2.1 and I’m sure I’m not guilt free in resorting to foul talk and which school is better but in the end I thought last night was a really great game to watch from both sides. That last 3:30 left a sour taste in my mouth, but my team just didn’t make the plays down the stretch.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Yep
we occasionally win games that I don’t feel great about because of officials at the end (UCLA jumps to mind). I don’t remember 2 bad calls changing the game as much as they did last night, but on the road in conference you sometimes have to be a lot better than your opponent to win and we just weren’t last night. Plenty of opportunity to put Missouri away (by more than 7) and we didn’t. Allowing the refs to affect the game at the end was on us.
Very much agree...
And though I know you’re not in this boat, it’s crazy to act like those weren’t atrocious, game-altering calls. The call on Robinson was so bad that there’s no debate. The one on Tyshawn was much closer… and even it looked like this
by hiphopopotamus on Feb 5, 2012 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
the general 20-10 foul discrepancy is bad but not out of the bounds of a typical home court/spineless officials. Each of the calls at the end were historically bad calls taken individually and together… Well, Gottleib pretty much said it all.
All the hype
from ESPN and others around these calls is also likely to make the AFH game even less fair for the visitors.
It was the flip side for me. First half was great fun, second half Mizzou was playing uncharacteristically out of control and sloppy – the opposite of what makes them normally so good, and then the last few minutes were the kind of thing that make sports worth it. And yeah, some bad calls, but there were those earlier in the game too… Ratliffe was on the edge of fouling out from some aggregiously horrible fouls too… it happens.
I know you're not arguing this
but it was clearly called in favor of the home team throughout the game. Were there bad calls that went Kansas’s way? Probably so, but 20-10 with the physical D you guys were playing is simply unfathomable. The officials didn’t have the spine to call the game correctly, which happens far too often in major college basketball.
Theres a difference between "it happens"
And a 20-10 discrepancy, not to mention a monstrosity of a call, followed by a bad call, all down the stretch that directly impacted the game. I’ll admit that there have been plenty of times KU has benefited from bad calls and home cooking, but last night was pretty terrible. I give credit to Missouri for winning the game and hitting shots (however flukey they were) down the stretch, but the blown calls leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Shit happens when you win championships
I tell you what.
Most important game on the schedule is the next one. Win at Baylor and I’ll feel better about the end goal which is winning the Big 12. Last night was one path to it, but not the only one and the Tigers do still have to come in to AFH.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Yep...
We know Missouri is losing at least once more. So we’re still in good shape there – all they did was hold serve. But for an outright title, we can probably only drop one more. And with @ Waco, @ Manhattan, @ CS, and @ Stillwater still remaining… that’s not an easy task.
by hiphopopotamus on Feb 5, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure
Baylor has looked very much like a Scott Drew team of late and Missouri is obviously quite beatable and they’ve still got Baylor, KState and Iowa State at home (none of which will be full houses) and @ OU and @ A&M.
I think we'll all lose again...
I just think it might take 15-3 to win it outright.
by hiphopopotamus on Feb 5, 2012 3:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think you're giving Mizzou enough credit ::gags::
they’re 21-2. They just beat us. They beat Baylor in Waco. They went on the road and won in Ames. Saying they’re “quite beatable” and all these assumptions I’m hearing that they’re going to choke down the stretch seems like wishful thinking.
Use the forks
by PenHawk on Feb 5, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We said the same of UT last year.
I’m not arguing on either side, but if KU takes care of business these last 4 weeks, I feel pretty good.
Supporter of Carlos Austin Boozer, and I don't want to see Dwight Howard in a Bulls uniform. Call me crazy.
by wrigleyrocker12 on Feb 5, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe
we played an OK first half and a good but not great second half and played plenty well enough to win at their place in the biggest game of their history. They will lose 2-3 more games in the Big 12.
Ultimately I just don't trust
a team that’s 57th in defense to sustain winning in the Big 12. They’re going to have bad nights shooting and are simply not good enough defensively to make up for it.
I agree that Missouri is beatable on the road.
But I just don’t see Baylor beating Missouri in Columbia and we have significantly more difficult road games remaining than Missouri has. Not sure we can count on getting any help at all. With the remaining schedule, I see us as behind and playing catch-up at this point.
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