Should Kansas Add Division One Ice Hockey?
Kansas obviously has tremendous basketball tradition. Forget the national and conference championships, forget the All-Americans, forget having one of the best arenas in all of sports; the inventor of the sport coached here. Even without all of the other stuff, that cinches Kansas as one of the most tradition rich schools in America. Add in the rest and it's gravy.
While it's obviously not as rich as the basketball tradition, this area has quite a rich tradition in hockey as well. Various semipro teams from the Kansas City Pla-Mors (1927-1933) to today's Wichita Thunder, who play in the CHL.
While professional and semiprofessional ice hockey is great, there is a version of hockey that is even better: college hockey. As an alum of the University of North Dakota, which, to make a simplistic comparison, is sort of like the Kansas of college hockey, I am obviously biased. But I also have been exposed to the best that college hockey has to offer, seeing guys like Jonathan Toews before he became an Olympic gold medalist and Stanley Cup winner, and I think division one hockey would be a fantastic addition to Kansas.
There are, of course, a number of hurdles in doing so. The first is Title IX, which, to provide a simplistic explanation, requires proportional athletic representation between men and women. Kansas does offer three sports only for women (soccer, swimming & diving, tennis) but without looking up the exact financials I'm not sure whether KU would have to add another women's program (e.g. hockey) or perhaps cut a men's program, but regardless that hurdle is there.
The second is that of funding. There is currently no hockey facility on campus (or even in Lawrence as far as I am aware), and those facilities are obviously very expensive. The Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) recently announced plans to build a new arena, a project that will require about $25 million, and Penn State recently announced plans to add the sport altogether, a project that was undertaken with the help of an $88 million donationfrom alum and Buffalo Sabres owner Terry Pegula. Both arenas will feature a maximum of 6,000 seats, with RIT's probably closer to 4,000. Even though Kansas is a far bigger school than RIT, it likewise should keep its arena small. It not only would lower the price tag, but would improve the atmosphere. Only four schools (Wisconsin, Ohio State, Nebraska-Omaha, North Dakota) have arenas with a capacity of more than 10,000, and only North Dakota's is used almost exclusively for hockey. I would set the capacity at 5,000 and even that may be an overestimation.
If the $88 million that Penn State got to start the program is the price tag for KU's as well, it is a tough hurdle, but hardly impossible to overcome. The 2009 Allen Fieldhouse renovations (which weren't that extensive) cost around $8 million, and were part of a $42 million project that included a practice facility, and TCU recently announced a renovation plan for its football stadium that would surpass the $100 million mark.
Once that arena was built (and I think 25 million or so is very doable) there is of course the cost of upkeep. Hockey facilities can run in the six figures for upkeep each year, but the upkeep of an Olympic sized swimming pool can cost $250,000 in upkeep as well. Robinson Natatorium doesn't have an Olympic sized pool, but it does have to separate pools of nearly the same area (one is 25 meters, one is 25 yards), so the upkeep costs are, I imagine, relatively similar.
Kansas likely wouldn't be making that money back from ticket sales, at least at first: the average program loses about $350,000 a year, but that pales in comparison to baseball, where the average program loses over $500,000 a year. With Kansas being one of the weaker programs in the nation, that number is probably much higher. And it's important to note that it is not permanently a non-revenue sport: at several schools, such as the aforementioned North Dakota and Colorado College, hockey revenues are the main source of funding for the athletic department. But that is not confined to the small schools: Michigan's hockey ticket revenue recently outpaced its basketball revenue by about $1 million.
The unsettled nature of college hockey right now provides the perfect backdrop for a big school such as Kansas to add a program. With Penn State's announcement of going Division 1, it and the other five hockey playing schools in the Big 10 (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State) broke off from their respective conferences (WCHA, CCHA) to form the Big 10 hockey conference, which will begin play in the 2013-14 season. In response to that, eight former WCHA and CCHA schools (Colorado College, Denver, Miami, Minnesota-Duluth, Nebraska-Omaha, North Dakota, St. Cloud State and Western Michigan) formed the National Collegiate Hockey Conference. The result is that the WCHA and CCHA had to scramble, and now the WCHA will feature nine schools starting that season. The largest school of that bunch is Bowling Green, and adding Kansas not only gives the WCHA a 10th member it is probably looking for, but also legitimacy as well.
The problem here is travel: It is roughly 750 miles to Bowling Green, and that is (I believe) the shortest trip. The trip to Houghton, Michigan, where Michigan Tech is located, is 814 miles (and it is a notoriously tough place to get to). And don't even get me started on the trips to Anchorage and Fairbanks.
Which leads me to another idea, and perhaps a shot in the dark one: What about the NCHC? While it has two of the biggest hockey powers in the country in North Dakota and Denver, they lack the big name schools that the Big 10 and Hockey East (Boston College as well as Notre Dame, who will be joining the conference in 2013) have. While Kansas lacks the name recognition of a Michigan or Ohio State, it would still be the largest school in the conference, and while it would be a bit of a logistics problem with nine teams, Hockey East operated with nine teams for many years, and the travel is far easier. (to Omaha it is just over 200 miles, and to Denver it is just over 550 miles).
Being the first Big 12 school to add hockey would get Kansas ahead of the curve. With the addition of NHL teams in Texas and Arizona, youth hockey is exploding in participation. Texas alone has gone from about 6,500 players registered with USA Hockey in 2002-03, to over 11,000 last year. And that is just officially registered players. If Kansas is the first Big 12 school to offer hockey, and the second in the region (Alabama-Huntsville has Division 1 hockey but they are currently set to be reclassified back to club hockey, so Kansas would be the only D1 program South of Nebraska), they will be in the minds of each player growing up in that region. While the best of the best, such as Plano's Seth Jones, son of former NBAer Popeye and possible 2013 #1 overall pick, will still likely pursue either major junior hockey in Canada or more elite NCAA programs, the emerging stable of perhaps not elite but capable division 1 hockey players will grow up with Kansas being the only school in their area offering hockey. Once Texas adds the sport, which I believe is coming sooner rather than later, they will obviously be a big player, but if they wait even 5 years after Kansas adds hockey a generation of players will grow up with Kansas being the biggest show in town, and probably their best route to a college degree as well as possibly a professional career.
Just for fun, my dream coach (realistically) is Providence Head Coach Nate Leaman. Leaman built Union, a Division 3 school that doesn't even offer athletic scholarships, from virtually nothing into one of the best programs in their conference. Last year, with a team built by Leaman, Union won their conference for the first time ever and advanced to the NCAA tournament. At Providence, Leaman has the Friars currently in 6th in the 10 team Hockey East, and their 10 conference wins are already more than double what they had all of last year, and double what they had in 09-10, when they finished last.
Regardless of who they would pick to run the program, adding ice hockey would be a positive step for the school. While the atmosphere won't be Allen Fieldhouse like, it will be a great atmosphere and I have never met someone who said they didn't like hockey or at least have a better opinion of it after going to their first game. Hockey would be a fantastic addition to the school as well as the community, and if we act quickly we can benefit both on and off the ice.
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Interesting but no.
I’d prefer to add a wrestling program over hockey in a heartbeat.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
it still smarts
I remember when we dropped mens swimming, tennis and wrestling all over Title IX, still angry….
But we can add Wrestling back and offset it with women’s lacrosse or something…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Let's get the track out of the football stadium
and build the proposed Olympic Sports Complex at the old football practice fields. Then you can start raising cash for hockey.
Now you're in my wheelhouse!
I don’t think it’s any secret that labba would fall out of his chair if this happened. It really has been a pipe-dream of mine for years and years. When I was at KU in the 90’s there was a strong push to get a rink put in with the Robinson renovations. It was to be partially funded by the city of Lawrence so it could be jointly used and operated. Alas, it failed. But as soon as I hit the Powerball, it’s happening.
I do think this is one of those, ‘if you build it, they will come’ situations. UNO is a hockey power despite not being in a great traditional hockey market. I think that if a major Big XII school blazed a trail others would follow. I know Iowa St has flirted with the idea as their ACHA teams have been dominant for years.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Here's the website for KU Hockey
They play their games in Topeka since Ice Midwest closed down it’s ice sheets last summer. : (
They have Border War match-ups with Mizzou at the arena in Independance. It’s come a long way since we restarted the club in the late 90’s. But we did have a couple of chances to play at Kemper arena. At about that time there was talk of forming a KC-area college hockey league. I think it was going to be, JCCC, KU, Penn Valley, Park College and maybe MANU but I left before it materialized.
There was a lot of High School and youth hockey being played. There were healthy high school programs on both sides of the state line as well as in Wichita. KU had 5 ice sheets (6 if you count Crown Center) at the time, now I think there are only 2 so I’m not sure how much of a hit the KC-area leagues have taken.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
All that said
I really do see this as a viable option. KU needs to consider expanding it’s collegiate sports profile and here’s why. I honestly do think that the Conference Reallignemnt mess is not going anywhere and eventually the whole thing is going to blow up. I know last Summer we sorta toyed with the idea of how we would fit into the B1G, well, we’d be pretty small time.
Look at Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan St, Ohio St as examples. If I remember, Ohio St had something like 16 men’s programs whereas KU only has 6. I know we’re a much smaller school but we are a flagship state school in a power conference, we should be able to compete.
So, naturally why not add hockey? Hockey can potentially be much more of a revenue generator or at least a publicity generator than other “non-revenue” sports. It is a team sport and by it’s very nature is fast and passionate and when played in a small barn (Fetch says 5k we can go smaller I think) is as loud and boysterous as anything you can imagine.
I remember watching SDSU Coyotes games when I was little and though I didn’t play hockey until later I was instantly made a hockey fan, there’s nothing quite like it.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
The answer is no, for a few reasons. At least not right now.
1) No place to play. If there was a rink on campus, you could get fans/revenue etc. I think this would be cool, have a hockey stadium and then open it to the public to skate on during the offseason (wouldn’t that make some skrilla in Lawrence?). If the team has to keep going to Topeka, KC, no one will watch. Now, if the team played right on campus, I think people would go. People check out baseball games because it is right there on campus (I did a few times and I’m not even a big baseball guy).
2) No one to play.What league do we play in? Can’t play other Big 12 school’s club teams, no point in that (I mean, why not just stay club level ourselves). Can’t play Big 10 teams because we’d get murdered. At least 5 other Big 12 schools would have to do the same.
3) Recruiting. How are we going to get good players? The club team already nabbed some of the area’s best high school players (I knew a few of them on the team). But to recruit nationally and get it rolling, you are going to ask talented players to join a new team and play teams far away.
4 Title 9. What exactly are we dropping to add this?
Now here is a big kicker: Is KC ever getting an NHL team???? (I would prefer this I think NHL games in the Sprint Center would be plyr). This swings it for me. If the answer is no, then a college hockey team in Lawrence (if the previous steps happen) could be a draw for hockey fans, especially if they can get a few marquee names to come play there. If KC does eventually get an NHL team, KC hockey fans are going to go all in on that.
And I’m spent.
Shit happens when you win championships
Yeah
1. you’d obviously have to build a rink. No way around it.
2. We’d probably join the WCHA. Fits in to make 10 teams, would be the biggest school, etc. but the travel is an issue
3. wouldn’t be a problem. There are good hockey players all over and college hockey has gotten to be a much more popular option for recruits recently.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Yep, re: 3
The influence of Major Junior hockey is waning.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
i don't suppose
the traditionalists would be down for retrofitting the phog to also have an ice rink under the hardwood
crazy as it sounds, hockey games at allen field house sound intriguing
next level performer
Except for that part about it not having a modern heating/cooling system
Retrofitting all that would be much more expensive than building a separate hockey arena.
yep,
it’s a pretty significant retro-fit. It is literally a bottom-up project.
I remember when they re-did the ice sheet at King Louie/Ice Chateau in Overland Park the had to put the whole building up on jacks so they could replace the heating coils under the ice.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Seems like that was just bought by Overland Park and is going to be a museum or something?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Yeah, its a real shame
most KC-area hockey players got their start at that rink.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Am I the only one who finds
beach volleyball to be much less exciting than normall team volleyball?
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Please turn in
your man card.
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
I dunno
those shorts are nice and they leave a little more to the imagination…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
have you been to a team volleyball match?
I didnt go to any in college but I went to one in high school. They did all of these stupid cheers and chants, really annoying. They would always promote the games saying “Come see us in spandex.” not a motivation for me to go. Basically the only way you are getting me to a match is if its outside, the girls are wearing less clothes and I can get my tan on.
Actually I have...
I went to a really small HS where you generally went to all of the sports events whether you were in them or not. Then I went to a couple at KU and they were much more entertaining. I’m not really that big into watching either beach or indoor though. If I want to see girls in bikinis I’ll just go to the beach without a match.
Yeah, quite a few.
The team went to state a few times while I was in high school plus I dated the best player, so kind of had to anyway. However, good volleyball was always entertaining. Watch it on tv sometime if you get a chance, very fast paced.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
And the girls are pretty hot
Its head and shoulders above watching softball for talent scouting. Nothing beats women’s tennis though. Well… that can be hit or miss too.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 17, 2012 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ana Ivonovich is my favorite
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 19, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
Not to sound fey, either
but Men’s Volleyball during the olympics is pretty impressive, the game is fluid and fast.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Considering the annual conference realignment talks
this probably isn’t the best time to start adding sports that are only going to lose money.
Also, any money that is brought in is going to be from season ticket sales. While hockey might have a couple good seasons of attendance, I think most of that would be from single game ticket holders and attributed to the “newness” factor. Once that fades, there aren’t enough people that would support hockey enough to get season tickets.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
see my arguement about for adding
sports during conference realligment. Especially if we expect to fit in with the B1G which is probablly where we would all like to end up…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
If it's about just adding sports
then men’s soccer would get the nod well before hockey.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Ummm..there's a pro hockey team a lot closer than Wichita
How big a hockey market is this? So big that the Missouri Mavericks of the CHL evidently haven’t made enough of an impact to warrant mentioning in this article. No way KU does anything with hockey because they’d have to add a new women’s sport. KU only has one revenue producing sport as it is. If we were like Nebraska, where football, men’s basketball, baseball, volleyball and maybe others all produce revenue, we could think about it. But when KU women’s basketball can barely draw 2,000 people, baseball can barely draw 500 and volleyball probably is struggling as well, there’s no way to justify the cost.
2 things
1. I’ll be goddamned if I mention missouri before Kansas, hence talking about Wichita.
2. The difference between hockey and women’s basketball, college baseball and volleyball is that hockey is entertaining
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
While I agree that hockey is entertaining.
It’s only entertaining to a small percentage of the population.
This biggest set back for hockey in Kansas is that it is a winter sport. Kansas already has a winter sport that dominates.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Again, I think wrestling should get the nod well before hockey.
Wrestling is a huge sport in the state of Kansas and provides a very talented pool to reach into, hockey doesn’t have that in this state.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I agree with this
and adding hockey is a pipe dream at this point, nothing more.
I think the point Fetch makes is that should a big doner come forward it could be made to work.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Plus KU used to have rasslin as well
I hate a “Kansas Wrestling” T-shirt.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
I wrestled in high school
I have absolutely nothing against it, in fact whenever it comes on ESPNU or whatever I usually end up getting sucked in.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I will mention this again as the time draws nearer
but the IceBreaker is in Kansas City next fall. Good cheap way to see some good college hockey (though the atmosphere won’t be as good as a local site obviously because its in the Sprint Center)
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Hockey has to be among the most expensive sports to add
Let’s get back up above the minimum number of men’s sports by adding back swimming/diving or soccer first. We already have the facilities, and we have opponents within easy driving distance.
add men's and women's rugby
before dropping $100 million on a new hockey program and all that entails. Rugby can be played on the soccer pitches we already have for women’s soccer, requires a ridiculously low overhead (all the school would need to buy are jerseys, mouth guards and a few balls), and is a rapidly growing sport in America.
I like watching hockey but I can’t see it competing financially with rugby.
Bask in the glory that is Kwame Harris. Poor Alex...
Do you think rugby is more viable than hockey in terms of mass appeal?
I’m not hating here, just asking…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I don't. Especially as long as football is around.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I don't think it is
but I do believe it would lose less money than hockey would.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
probably
though I don’t see how it takes in any revenue
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
I don't think it does either
but when discussing programs that are going to lose money, the one that will lose less will be the more viable option.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
I guess my thing
about adding soccer, wrestling, swimming and whatnot, while I agree they should be added and probably should have never been dropped, do not generate a ton of interest.
There’s no such thing as a soccer school. At least not in terms of the national conversation. But there ARE hockey schools. UND, Maine, UNH, UNO, Colorado College are all schools that come to mind that when people think about thier athletics departments, the first thing they think of is hockey.
Hockey will never compete with football or basketball but it doesn’t mean it has to be a born loser. It can be and in many schools a marquee sport.
I’m mean, have you ever seen a Michigan/Michigan St. hockey game? Holy smokes, it’s intense. UND/Minnesota? It’s brutal, fast and awesome. Fewer things sound cooler than a pep band at a hockey game, but then, I’m pretty biased here….
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Your last line says it all.
The schools you mentioned as “hockey schools” mean nothing to me and I’m a fan of a lot athletic activities. Wrestling’s no more of a niche sport than hockey. Not sure how it would generate less interest than hockey in Lawrence, Kansas.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
All I'm trying to say there is that
hockey may be a niche, but it is a much larger niche. As far as mens collegiate sports, I’d say it’s right behind baseball in terms of popularity and in a lot of cases it surpasses.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Looking at the EIA data on athletic department revenues / expenses
Hockey is the 2nd or 3rd most expensive sport on an operating basis. It costs about the same as basketball at BC. It’s actually a bit more expensive than football at No. Dakota. It looks like it costs about $400,000-600,000 per year, and that’s not including the cost of the arena or any other capital expenses.
They only break out revenues by sport for basketball and football, so it’s impossible to tell how much money hockey is bringing in, but the expenses for hockey are going to be an order of magnitude higher than for a sport like swimming or soccer. If we dialed back the firehose of cash being sprayed at the football program, we might be able to think about it, but, for right now, I think we need to stick with the small dollar sports if we’re going to add programs.
Your last line
I’m mean, have you ever seen a Michigan/Michigan St. hockey game? Holy smokes, it’s intense. UND/Minnesota?
I just don’t see the KU/Alaska Fairbanks rivalry quite taking off.
I do like hockey. I just think it’s too expensive to try to incorporate in an area that has never supported hockey and already has a dominant winter sport.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
the best part about hockey
is you can make rivalries organically more easily than in any other sport.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
This is true
But I think the only way that happens is by proximity and therefore they’d need to join the NCHC. I wouldn’t mind watching DU and KU.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
yeah probably
though one of UND’s biggest rivals lately is Denver because of how intense the games have been lately. I look at them as our 2nd biggest rival now even though 5 other schools are closer.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
You can foight
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
"not literally in the college game"
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
"I’m mean, have you ever seen a Michigan/Michigan St. hockey game?"
I have. In fact, I’ve seen many. Little know fact……Rivethead was the first kid ever to get lost in Munn Ice Arena and have the PA announcer ask his parents to please come to the command booth to pick up their lost child.
Rivethead also got obliterated by a blind side check when he was 9 at Munn Ice Arena…..before going on to get two assists to help his team to a 7-2 victory and championship (televised on local cable tv too!).
But I digress. Labba the problem here is Kansas fans are ignorant. You and fetch are fighting a losing battle. You might recall I went on a rampage here last year (or maybe 2010) about fan support. During that rant I brought up the fact that a basketball school like Michigan State still has a fan base that can passionately support football, hockey and wrestling too. Why can’t we?
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
we're changing the culture one fan at a time...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I'm going to go with
Michigan State is twice as large as KU
The nearby major metro area to Michigan State is 2.5 times as big as the one nearby to KU.
I don’t think there’s a lack of passion among KU fans, just a lack of people.
it's a factor
but it doesn’t mean that the fans that DO show up should be so fair weather.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
There are plenty of diehard KU football fans. Where do you think all of this money is coming from?
The program is awful. I’m actually amazed the student support it as well as they do. Fan support is far better than when I was at school late in the Terry Allen era.
So fair weather?
Calling a college kid for failing to support the football program “fair weather” is pretty close to calling Royals fans fair weather.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
The student section usually doesn't bail
I’m referring mostly to Lawrence townies.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I have to agree. We do have a bit of an apathetic fanbase.
It’s too bad but I guess it is what it is at this point. I guess I am banking on exposing people to hockey other than minor league hockey would show them how cool of a sport it is
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Apathetic?
Based on the shitty turnouts for shitty football in a shitty stadium?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Feb 16, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
This is so, so, so true
You want to know why fans aren’t passionate at games? Read this please.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
Also, KU football is, by far the worst of those programs
Kansas basketball: .719 winning percentage
Michigan State football: .591 winning percentage
Michigan State basketball: .593 winning percentage
Michigan State ice hockey: .571 winning percentage
Kansas football: .501 winning percentage
Show me another school with as few people as KU supporting a program as crummy as KU football, and I’ll consider the idea that KU has apathetic fans. From where I sit though, KU football is pretty lucky to have the support that it has.
by KSinDC on Feb 16, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha.
During that rant I brought up the fact that a basketball school like Michigan State still has a fan base that can passionately support football, hockey and wrestling too.
You mean to tell me a school 45 minutes away from a city nicknamed “Hockeytown” has no problem supporting their already established hockey program?
What makes the Kansas fans ignorant? The fact that hockey has tried and failed in this region multiple times already? Let’s worry about consistently supporting the athletic teams that we do have before we try to incorporate a new one with a niche fan base.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Niche fan base and NO local support for the sport as a whole.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
You're ignoring the fact that
UofM is 5 minutes from Hockeytown and happens to be the state flagship school with their own dominate hockey program.
Huh. So even when MSU hockey is bad, and yes they’ve had bad periods, their fans still go nuts for the sport. They don’t start suddenly wearing Redwings or Wolverine sweaters.
I ask again – why can basketball school ike Michigan State have a fan base that can also passionately follow football, hockey, and wrestling?
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
You're ignoring the fact that
hockey has tried and failed in the midwest area multiple times.
The majority of the MSU fanbase is from Michigan and has always been around hockey. It’s just a part of life. It’s not quite that simple when you just try to relocate a sport to a brand new place.
If KU had a hockey team, would you buy season tickets to it?
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
It has failed to varying degrees
The Blades were successful and had a strong following. The only reason they’re not here anymore is because the IHL tried to take on the NHL and lost.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
How is Michigan State a basketball school?
Their football and basketball programs have had almost identical winning percentages, and its hockey team isn’t far behind.
It’s a school with 3 good programs and a huge student body in a very populous state. The surprised would be if those programs weren’t well supported.
...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4m4wbYc08k
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Oh how I wish I weren't pa!
But I digress. Labba the problem here is Kansas fans are ignorant.
Because I’m not a fan of hockey? Or because fans just aren’t into KU football? Look at Allen Fieldhouse, the fans are passionate. Claiming the fans are “ignorant” because they don’t share your love of football or hockey is a joke, plain and simple. I’m guessing you know that but just in case you don’t, it’s a joke.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I think what Rivet is trying to say
is that we’re a major state school and a flagship school of a power conferece, there’s no reason we can’t have a fan base that can at least be on par with one of the B1G schools.
Which to me means that we’re able to support multiple programs.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
He might be. I read it as "I'm a true fan, I care about football. You don't, so you're ignorant"
And that’s just a joke.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Rivet like most football first KU fans
has a bit of a chip on his shoulder in that regard but I really wouldn’t take it too personally. I honestly doubt that if slight was intended it wasn’t directed at you or anyone else at RCT.
If you weren’t a KU fan you wouldn’t be here.
Speaking of which, where the hell did AJ end up, I haven’t seen him here at all this season…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
This is exactly what I'm saying
A major state school in a major power conference and 99.% of of our fans only care about one sport.
That’s just not right. Hell if you moved the KU basketball program to Haskell, 99.5% of our fans would move with them. They care less about their school and more about being a fan of a dominate, winning program.
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
99%
Seriously? I know you were just throwing a number out but this is horribly false. Lots and lots of KU fans care about football a lot. Now are there fans out there that don’t wnat to spend their time and money on a dogshit program? Yes, but that doesn’t mean they don’t care. They want it to be good desperately, that’s why you see thousands of people spending their hard earned dollars on tailgates and going to the games on Saturdays.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 16, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
More people bought tickets for KU football than KU basketball this year
But why look up numbers when you can make them up?
to be fair
higher capacity plus if you buy a season ticket for bball as a student you buy one for football as well
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Higher capacity, yes.
But it’s not like basketball season tickets were unavailable.
the bigger thing I think would have to do with total pricing.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Yup
I made up the 99% to emphasize a point. But don’t let that distract you from dispuing the point……the majority of our fan base cares less about the school and more about being a fan of a dominate, winning program.
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
Aren't all fan bases like this?
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
agreed
what is the connection still between most people and their University? Sports. So of course this would be the case. Hell my family still lives in Lawrence and the only connection I still have is sports.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 16, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
If people were complaining that the tennis team doesn't get enough support, I'd have some sympathy
If people are complaining that the team that sells the most tickets of any of them (despite having a crappy record) doesn’t get enough support, I’m not really buying that people don’t have enough support for their school.
Some people like football. Some people don’t. Everyone likes being happy more than being sad. There’s no need to slander KU fans with the claim that they’re somehow uniquely unsupportive.
by KSinDC on Feb 16, 2012 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Akron
Akron is pretty close to a soccer school. As are UCSB and New Mexico. UCSB drew 14k for a rivalry game. There are plenty of good soccer schools, such as USF and Maryland, however, football will be king no matter what. But there are powerhouse soccer teams.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
very true
Akron definitely is, UNC, a few Big 10 schools churn out MLS talent year after year too.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 16, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Agree -
I’m not saying there aren’t schools that have top soccer programs, rather I’m saying when you think about UNC or the Big 10 schools the first thing you think about most likely isn’t soccer.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
It seems like UCSB and Akron are pretty good comparisons for the Maines and UNDs of the world
Neither hockey nor soccer is ever going to be the first thing you think about when you’re talking about a BCS school
Minnesota maybe...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
definitely them
and Boston College. That’s probably it. Unless Penn State’s football team takes a dive after this scandal
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
For the vast majority of sports fan,
we’ll think of how bad Minnesota’s teams have been or Doug Flutie. Hockey would never even cross my mind.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
if your argument is the vast majority of sports fans are simpletons
I agree with you
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Mine neither
I guess it’s cool that hockey people really like hockey, and it’s definitely cool that they want it to succeed, but some of the premises of the pro-hockey argument seem a bit delusional to me.
At BC, football brought in $20M, basketball brought in $6M and all other sports combined brought in $7M.
At Minn, football brought in $31M, basketball brought in $15M and all other sports combined brought in $7M.
These aren’t hockey-first schools.
I agree that college hockey is superior to pro hockey.
But I also agree wight many ofthe posters here that wrestling would be much more likely to be added and would be better received by the fan base in Kansas, than would hockey.
Yup
How many Kansas high schools have wrestling teams? How many have hockey teams?
by jayhawk1996 on Feb 16, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
Well High School wrestling has always been big in KS
and you’ll get no argument from me about bringing it back.
But as I stated above (I’m not sure anyone read my 3 long replies) there are very healthy high school hockey leagues on both sides of the state line as well as Wichita.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
That's great
But the Kansas State High School Activities Association doesn’t sponsor hockey. It does have wrestling – six classes of it. If we’re going to add sports, let’s add wrestling before hockey.
like labba said. (multiple times)
we’re not saying don’t bring wrestling back.
Even though I think wrestling is stupid.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Good for you.
But wrestling has the 6th most participants in high schools across the nation. If a new sport were to be added, wouldn’t that one make a lot more sense than a niche sport that has NO local or regional tie to the area?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I don't understand why you're making this argument
there isn’t a disagreement on this subject.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Because hockey's being pushed here.
I’m just pointing out that there is a sport that is much better suited for the area. Pro-hockey posts are saying “yeah but hockey would be cool”. That’s great and all but if we’re really discussing a sport that has the potential to bring positive attention and success to the University, wrestling wins out by a mile over hockey.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Title of this thread
might have something to do with the reason hockey is being “pushed” here.
Just sayin. :-)
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
Probably why I have stated there is a much better sport for the university.
I don’t understand why you’re making this argument
And that’s why I made the argument.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I said "I don't understand why you're making this argument"
because we were already agreeing with you, not that I thought your argument was invalid…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I keep saying that I totally agree with that.
I’m not advocating adding hockey over wrestling, I’m really not.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Understood
But if KU adds any men’s varsity sports, it’s probably going to be one or the other. Frankly, I’d prefer to bring back men’s swimming and tennis over starting hockey or wrestling.
I totally agree
Like I said above, the day we got rid of Men’s swimming, Tennis and Wrestling was a very bad day on campus. We should get back to where we were before adding more.
I think the point of this whole discussion is simply is a hockey program viable?
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Be serious here, people
as someone born and raised in Kansas, wrestling is big in some (especially rural) high schools, but generates no real revenue. Hockey fans are few and far between in Kansas. I can’t give you an example of someone that I’ve met that is a born and raised Kansan and is a hockey fan.
You can’t just grow a fan base for a hockey program overnight, and we much more desperately need our football program to be successful than to develop an incredibly expensive money suck by building a facility that costs huge amounts to maintain (it gets much warmer in Kansas than 90% of the examples you’re giving).
Additionally, I’m assuming that there isn’t going to be some big TV contract that puts KU hockey on the air for any sort of fan base to take hold. If it’s not on TV, people can’t watch. If people can’t watch over the air (or cable) then that’s like comparing an Ebola endemic to a flu epidemic. Even though Ebola is extremely infectious for those who are exposed, it’s only by direct contact and bodily fluids (i.e. parallel to only being able to watch a game in person), whereas an influenza epidemic is transmitted by airbone aerosols and particles. There isn’t enough infectivity with events to which people can’t get exposed.
I think the hockey fans are vastly overplaying the popularity and success of hockey so far in Kansas and Missouri, as well as exaggerating the market for it. There’s no way we need this, or can profit from it, however nice it would be for the hockey fans in the gallery. Seriously, people: this will never work.
and, ebola reference
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Despite the reference
I speak the truth. The only real hockey fans here are transplants.
by rockchalk1187 on Feb 16, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
that most definately is not true...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I've lived in Kansas my entire life other than 4 years for college
and in 5 different places. Never met a Kansas hockey fan, not a one. That means at the very least they’re uncommon or not passionate.
by rockchalk1187 on Feb 16, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
uncommon yes
but we’re here.
Don’t forget, the Blades were drawing 15k a game in the 90’s for minor league hockey. JoCo and Wichita High Schools have teams (Lawrence did too for a while, don’t know if they still do), many of the guys on the KU club team were from KS.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I had the same experience.
Born and raised in Kansas, living in Oklahoma now. The only hockey fans I have ever met were my uncle and his 2 sons and they had lived in Chicago for 10 years and became Blackhawks fans.
Thunder's average attendance is around 5k right?
I went to a few Thunder games back in the day, and had several classmates who were pretty obsessed with them. They could have properly been considered hockey fans, I think. That’s been like 8 years though, so I dunno what it’s like now.
Thunder in the early 2000's were a big draw
so were the Scarecrows in Topeka. I remember when they first started playing the EXPOcentre and it was crazy. We actually had a couple joint practice/scrimmage sessions with those guys. THAT was fun.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
The Scarecrows,
And I’m from Topeka, were only very big when they first came to town because they were something new. I went to a game with my family, was OK, we didn’t ever go again. People that don’t already understand hockey will have a hard time getting into it. I even tried to become an NHL fan one season with some college buddies. Didn’t take because we didn’t understand the game and culture well enough. We even tried pretty hard.
by rockchalk1187 on Feb 16, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Also didn't help that the league folded...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I find the best way to learn a game is to play the video game
I really hated soccer most of my life until I played Fifa. I still don’t like soccer much but at least know I can appreciate it because I know basically what’s going on.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I think you're right to degree
and it’s been stated many times that this is a pipe dream. I think the discussion is more centered around, if a pile of money came in to be invested into a hockey program could it be viable? If so who would we play? What type of impact might it have on the phsyche of Kansas fans in general…
That sort of thing. It’s pie in the sky but hey, it’s fun to talk about on a Thursday afternoon in February.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
plus this weekend is hockey weekend across america
figured it was a decent time to post it
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
99.5% of KU fans
would rather talk about what T-Rob had for lunch yesterday.
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
that's why we have RCT...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
He can has cheezburger
also
McGruder’s lunch
also
none, he’s been giving it to Withey to help put some meat on those bones
also
A hamburger, no, a cheeseburger … a hot dog … a milkshake … potato chips….
I’ll be here all week.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 16, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
i've actually heard trob can eat absolutely anything in massive portions
instead of getting fat it somehow turns into more muscle.
for the record
Maybe the best goalie in college hockey the past 2 years is from Missouri.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
another thing to consider in terms of recruiting
is the number of awesome hockey players coming out of Texas, especially the DFW area. If we could be the first in the region to have a team it could mean a real leg up in recruiting.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
it's almost like i wrote that in the post or something
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
by fetch9 on Feb 16, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay, I'll give my two cents.
I am a native Kansan. There are only 2 people I knew growing up that actually played hockey, and both of them moved here during elementary school. I’m not a hockey fan and only watch it during the Olympics. I have only seen one hockey event live. I went to one Blades game when I was in high school because a friend’s dad bought all of us tickets and we spent the entire time flirting with the guys sitting behind us.
Quite honestly, I’m not a wrestling fan either. I would rather the school get a men’s soccer team or rugby. As a former soccer player, I enjoy the sport and have been to several KU women’s games, and even a few of the Sporting KC games since they moved to the Livestrong Sporting Park at the Legends. It would cost way less than hockey and I actually would attend these.
What? A girl who likes sports...INCONCEIVABLE!
by the by
I semi know the communications director for college hockey inc and he said they were going to give a pitch to Kansas and missouri next year at the icebreaker. So we’ll see if anything happens.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
So, arena.
Does it get built as an extention of Robinson or does it get put up on the other side of Daisy Hill and the Lied Center?
To me, what I would love to see is something that is done in conjunction with the city of Lawrence. The Lied Center area would be good because it is easy access and generally avoids campus. Plus, the Lied Center has been known to bring in ice shows that they do on stage so maybe that’s how it get’s to share the parking lot…
2 sheets?
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
probably out by the Lied Center so it could more easily be done in conjunction with Lawrence like you said
but who knows. I’d assume it would have to be somewhat close to campus though
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
I'd love to see it...
..college hockey is a LOT of fun.
And I’ll resist the urge to say something negative about UND here… ;)
I think you're up to a quadruple banned or something now
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Considering...
…you wrote the piece and tried to make out UND to be cool and all, did you think I wasn’t going to chime in? ;)
Yay, there's 3 of us!
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Spending a couple years...
..attending the University of Minnesota tends to make one a hockey fan.
(and a Fighting Sucks pitier, but let’s keep that between you and me, before I get up to quintuple (or more) banned…)
Sup with that Rau hit on Zucker?
Not cool, man.
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Feb 16, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure...
…haven’t seen a Gopher game in a while – they’re not always on down here, especially now that I don’t have the Sports Pack turned on on my cable subscription. They used to be on FSN-Central.
Oh.
Well nevermind then. Go Pioneers ;)
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Feb 16, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing says hockey
quite like playing it in Kansas, amirite?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
like clockwork
holy crap.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
like saying biggie smalls three times in a mirror
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
sup
I don’t really game thread during any sporting events like I used to. I also got busy, you know working and going back to school and attempting to be a productive member of society blahblahblah. Also I write for MHH now so I spend a lot of my free time writing/researching/helping people out with articles over there. Turns out blogging is a pretty serious time sink. Have loved seeing Throbbinson explode this year, though ;)
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Feb 16, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
thought you were in self-exile
with RC and KCsince88
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Though,
I did see some Facebook interaction between you a Fetch’s girl so I knew you still existed…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Fetch's girl ehwot?
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Feb 16, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Amanda Hill...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
awww
She’s one of my bestestest friends now. We have a lot of Facebook interaction :D
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day.
Mile High Hockey : Where B- is different than C+
by A.J. Haefele on Feb 16, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
LOL hockey discussion... I knew you'd show up.
Hows Coloradie?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2012 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
Hockey isn't my favorite sport by any means
But I could get behind a KU team. Loved going to Blades games n KC when I was younger, but I’ve never been able to follow the NHL too closely. I have been watching the college games on NBCSN on Friday nights, and those definitely keep my interest more than NHL games do.
it could happen damnit!

The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Nobody follows hockey in the midwest
that’s why those people in the picture…..they’re all just photoshopped in.
"No time for questions. No time for games. Start kickin' ass and takin' down the names." - Dave Mustaine.
by Rivethead on Feb 16, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
yep
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
7 rows, and about 50 people,
Let the sell out streak begin!
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
by Triston27 on Feb 17, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
FWIW
the border war games that are played in Independence are pretty well attended.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
there are also so pics floating around
when KU was playing at Ice Midwest in OP where the stands were packed. Granted the stands maybe held 500 people but for a club team with home ice that’s 45 mins away, I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
500 people for a one off game between arch-rivals good?
Meh.
The only way this works from a financial standpoint is what I outlined earlier – open the ice up as a “skating rink” to the public and youth teams as well. Lawrence doesn’t have a rink right now. If you want to ice skate you go elsewhere. No youth hockey teams, etc.
I think they could get the funding if they also used it for a general skating rink (like Pepsi Midwest was) and had some youth and/.or high school hockey games there too.
Then, on top of that, have it convertable or featuring an indoor soccer court (something Lawrence doesn’t have) and spruce up leagues like All-American in Lenexa has (this would be a huge hit in Lawrence) and use it for youth soccer as well.
No way this facility doesn’t make money. You get this going for starters, it is going to be a whole lot easier to implement your hockey team.
There, I’ve done all the work for you. Go make it happen. Please call it the Clark Center for Athletic Greatness and Spirited Competition
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 17, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Just curious, what's the story on the Pepsi Ice Rink?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
From what I understand
their refrideration unit broke on one of the sheets and they could afford to fix it. It caused a chain of events that eneded up in the removal of the remaining ice sheet. I think it is now a fitness center with indoor soccer, I’m not sure if it has a roller rink or not.
It’s a shame because it was a really nice facility. I think the only rink on the KS side now is what used to be known as Ice Sports KC off Johnson Dr and 435. I think it gets much of its funding from the city of Shawnee.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Doesn't Sport2Sport on Clinton Parkway have indoor soccer?
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I think so, but thats way out west
You have a facility closer to campus with ice skating (and the women folk are always into that), indoor soccer field, hockey. I could see it being a big draw.
No here is the super kicker. Adjacent to the place you build a Kansas and/or hockey themed bar and grill (more emphasis on bar, like the Yacht Club). People can play hockey and whatever else there, then go drink. Call it Slapshots or something like that. Extra revenue for the facility. In the bar, its all hockey crap with a Jayhawk twist. Have NHL 94 (one of the best video games ever made) available, or a “test your slapshot power” goal to shoot on. Be a big draw as well.
KU baseball has shown you can give away free crap to get people to games. I went to a few games when they had one dollar hot dwogs, t-shirts, bottle opener, etc. Do the same with the hockey team as well.
Boom. Clark Center for Athletic Greatness and Spirited Competition is ready to go.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 17, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
I know where I'm sending my lottery check...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Way out West?
Not that far. Besides, the families that are going to pay for their kids to play hockey and soccer already live out in that direction anyway. It’s perfect.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Yeah, this is sort of what I envision
a facility between the ballfields on Iowa and the Lied Center that is run and funded in a joint venture between the city and the university.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I have no doubt that attendance can be high
here and there. I just don’t think it can be sustained over 15 home games in Lawrence, KS.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
In all honestly probably not.
But it could also be one of those things that could catch fire. Here’s why:
1) Novelty – The newness of the sport to students and residents will bring out fans in the beginning and I’m sure many will get hooked
2) University team vs Minor league hockey – many have stated how minor league hockey tends to fail. This is because a community has trouble connecting to a team that is small time and seeming temporary (minor league teams come and go) whereas a university team already has the community connection built in and may help sustain it
3) Exciting spectator sport – Like it or not, but hockey is generally conidered to be one of the top 4 of spectator sports in North America. Given that it is a team sport and by it’s nature is fast and exciting it almost always makes for a solidly entertaining event.
Again, I’m not saying that it would succeed but the above reasons are why it may…
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I think reason #2 is a great reason.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
I would be cool with Hockey
but like many others I just don’t see it as the best option. I knew almost no one growing up who was a big fan, plenty of people who’d been to games and loved it, but no fans.
I’d love to see Men’s Tennis back. Lawrence used to be a youth tennis hotbed and they actually have a facility to play in now! Jayhawk Tennis Facility is where the women’s team plays and could house a men’s team too. It’s sad that we don’t have a team anymore and it’s basically because of Title 9.
Title 9 was great decades ago, it allowed women to get to the point they deserve to be at. Women have their own professional leagues! We’ve made leaps and bounds as a society since then, we don’t have to have a rule that forces the University to have a 60 woman rowing team just to cancel out football for Title 9.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 16, 2012 3:08 PM CST reply actions
Yep,
it needs to be revisited big time.
Equal opportunity is great if there’s equal demand.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
When concussions drive football into extinction, all of our problems will be solved
Actually, there’s a potential bigger Title IX problem looming. As women have surpassed 50% and now 55% of college student bodies, there’s an argument to be made that their athletic opportunities should proportionately increase. I think UNC is now something like 62% female. There’s a question whether having their scholarships 50-50 in that situation is fair under Title IX.
This just reminded me
of something that I thought was hilarious in a outdoor rec volleyball league I was playing in last summer. This league had a rule instituted called “the girl rule”, meaning a girl had to touch the ball once if there was more than one touch of the ball.
I sat there bewildered, asking all the women if this offended them, especially considering many of them had played way more volleyball than I ever had. It’s just funny how shit like that still happens.
by I need more Esteban on Feb 16, 2012 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
When did KU get enough money for a hockey program?
Would be cool to see but the startup funding is probably too much.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
They will have it when I make a donation
Sometime in the next 174 years
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 17, 2012 7:53 AM CST up reply actions
It's UMKC that should have hockey
It’s obvious this writer has a strong knowledge of hockey and collegiate hockey. As a KU alum, I commend him for being both hockey fan and KU alum. This post has seen way more comments than any to my silly, little (Best of KC, by the way) blog.
It’s obvious most of the people who post comments, have little hockey knowledge and actually make themselves look bad with their nonsense comments.
Here’s the bottom line, Title IX won’t allow KU to have a hockey team. You can stop there. Every other reason why it wouldn’t work doesn’t matter.
However, I’ll address some of the topics in this post:
1. There has been talk of a rink in Lawrence or Topeka for years. Someone would have to be wealthy and have serious stones to build one. There are wealthy people in Lawrence, but no one with stones.
2. The head coach of a KU hockey team would be Pat Ferschweiler with Jason Herter as his assistant. Period. End of story. Fersch and Herter were loyal Kansas Citians for years. Fersch is ready to be an NCAA Head Coach after his apprenticeship under Andy Murray at Western Michigan. It will never happen. If it did, Fersch would be HC.
3. Hockey needs to grow at a grassroots level before anything like an NHL or NCAA team ever comes to KC. Build more rinks first. This is the problem I have with the group that wants to bring the NHL to KC. They are doing very little to grow the sport first, then bring a team here.
4. The guy who is nearly singularly responsible for setting KC youth hockey back 10 years and closing the ice rink at 135th and Quivera is a KU guy…just sayin’. KU folks haven’t done much for hockey in KC.
5. Recruiting — non factor. There are plenty of kids in the USHL, NAHL and Canadian high school players who would play NCAA hockey at ANY Midwestern school even KU.
6. The fastest growing NCAA sport — men’s and women’s — is lacrosse. KU could have NCAA men’s and women’s teams and wouldn’t need to shell out millions upon millions of dollars for new(er) facilities.
Finally, Division 1 hockey would be a great addition to KANSAS CITY, not KU.
UMKC’s basketball program is a joke. They draw less than 2,000 people to their games.
If UMKC had a Division 1 hockey program, playing at Kemper Arena, even if it played in the Atlantic Hockey Conference with Air Force, the team would draw 5,000+ every game and up to 8,000+ on weekends.
I helped Fersch with a hockey camp
years ago. He had the heaviest shot I’ve ever felt.
I’ve been over to your blog a few times as it’s usually the best place to find NHL expansion news related to KC.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I'd have no problem
at ALL with UMKC trailblazing this.
In a lot of ways (as you pointed out) it makes sense. Facilities are avialable as well as the population. The only thing that I would say is that UMKC doesn’t have a vast community following.
KU would draw fans just simply because it’s KU (the same would happen in Columbia for Mizzou), I’m not sure UMKC has that built-in chache.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I'd question the 5,000 for every game unless they're giving 2 for 1 tickets for every game.
But you’re right, most of us just “nonsense”.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Comment was supposed to include the word "have"
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Can I ask why'd you would have UMKC play in Kemper
rather than Independence?
Kemper get’s awfully cavernous with only 5k fans
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
BTW -
I see that you are a Blues fan, be sure to check out St. Louis Game Time,
it is the Blues’ SB Nation blog, good group of guys. Funny, if not off colour, but always lots of solid content.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
also
just read your blog. Great work! but now I’m all depressed….
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
thanks for the comment
you’re probably right about UMKC being the school to do it, though I wonder if they have the following to do so. I do know I’d drive in for most games though. I obviously am a huge Herter fan being a former Sioux, but I figured as long as I was swinging for the fences I’d swing for the fences.
Agreed with the rest though. I’ll have to stop by your blog for more.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
UMKC
First, because Kemper has pipes in the floor and nothing going on. UMKC would want to keep it in the city proper, not Independence.Hale Arena has pipes, too for that matter.
Second, how many UN-O fans are there because they went to UN-O? Or, are they there for hockey?
UMKC has tons of alums, but nothing for which they can rally around because, since Bob Sunvold got canned, the hoops team is horrible. So bad they had to move out of Municipal (before you ask, Municipal doesn’t have pipes in the floor).
Guarantee 5,000+. More when if they get Minn., UN-O, UND or Notre Dame on the schedule. Guarantee. UN-O hockey sneezes and gets 5,000.
by PucKChaser on Feb 17, 2012 9:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Entertainment options in Omaha = options in KC?
The most enlightening thing I’ve gotten out of this post is finding out how arrogant hockey fans are. It’s almost like we’re discussing Indy bands.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Feb 17, 2012 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We’re KU fans. We’re, deservedly, arrogant about everything.
by PucKChaser on Feb 17, 2012 10:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Outstanding!
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
woah Warden,
Ease up, we’ve done nothing but agree with you over and over yet you’re railing about how arrogant hockey fans are?
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Words used by the pro hockey crowd in this thread to describe others:
Clueless
Apathetic
Simpleton
Nonsense
Ignorant
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I think most hockey fans tend to have a chip on their shoulder
because we feel that the sport as a whole is under represented and disrespected, so that might explain some of it.
As for your list of adjectives, they’ve been used before on this site in articles completely unrelated to hockey to describe hockey fans. I would be careful how wide a brush you use.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
Freudian...
should have said:
“They’ve been used before on this site in articles complete unrated to hockey to describe KU fans…”
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
yeah UNO has done a great job
hopefully UMKC adds it and is a great success and it pushes KU into it
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
I'll bet you 15,000 dollars that should this ever happen
You won’t average 5,000 people a game. I’m serious. Just don’t see it. No one follows UMKC sports. Its a school for city folk, people who want to go to school while living in KC (masters programs) and med students.
I know 18 people from my high school that went there. One could be deemed as having a slight interest in sports. It just isn’t a sports school. Nothing wrong with that, just the way it goes
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 17, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
And by sports school, I mean not enough to support a new program.
KU has students, people used to going to games, even for niche sports. All I know about UMKC is they have a basketball team we use as a punching bag in the noncon. Is the program supported in KC? I’ve lived in this area for 10 years and haven’t really seen it.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 17, 2012 11:06 PM CST up reply actions
Not about UMKC, it's about hockey.
Missing the point. It’s not about the size of UMKC’s fan bar, it’s about filling the need of hockey fans.
UMKC would provide some fans, but the team would be a rallying point for the city, not just UMKC alums. Just as UN-O filled that niche in Omaha. UN-O hockey draws Husker, Creighton and UN-O fans. It’s the city’s team. The Mavericks, kind of, fill the need of hockey fans, however much of their fan base is from the Independence, Blue Springs, Lee’s Summit area. A UMKC hockey team would draw from the entire metro area…trust me…I’m around the JoCo hockey community all the time. The team would draw 5,000+ at Kemper. NCAA decelops NHL players. The league the Missouri Mavericks play in does not. Rumor is Lindenwood in St Louis may add NCAA hockey. You think that is because of Lindenwood alums in the area? Nope. It fills a niche.
by PucKChaser on Feb 18, 2012 2:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hockey costs money
If UMKC students don’t want to watch hockey, why the hell would the school spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a program?
The drive for hockey is admirable, but a lot of the assumptions by hockey proponents are delusional.
by KSinDC on Feb 18, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
his post was about the city not the students...
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
The school has to fund the hockey team
The hockey team isn’t going to come close to breaking even.
Why would the school do it if its own stakeholders aren’t interested?
Even if you grant the fanciful attendance projections, this plan still doesn’t make any sense.
by KSinDC on Feb 18, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
for a city like Lawrence it would be KU fans driving the fanbase, but for Kansas City it wouldn’t be UMKC fans/students/alums
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
All this hockey talk
has me considering going to watch DU mop up UND next weekend.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com

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