Let's Play Football Without Pads! A Kansas v Kansas State Basketball Preview
by fetch9 on Feb 13, 2012 9:00 AM CST
in Kansas Jayhawk Basketball 2011-12
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PrintI personally hate these kinds of games. Games with a lot of contact that doesn't get called are great because I think basketball is supposed to be a physical sport, but the last thing I want to see is a free throw contest with some basketball being played in the intermissions.
Sadly this is probably what we are destined for this evening. The Wildcats are 10th in the nation and 2nd in the league in free throw rate, and are 310th nationally, and the worst in the league, at sending the opposing team to the line. Seven Wildcats draw more than 4 fouls per 40 minutes, and four draw more than 5 per 40. In other words, this should be a great contest of finesse and skill!
For (I think) the third time this year, we have a matchup of the league's best two defenses: Kansas State allows just .96 points per possession in Big 12 play, a mark bested only by Kansas's .926. Unlike the Jayhawks however, Kansas State doesn't have the same type of success on offense, scoring just 1.01 points per possession in Big 12 play. The Wildcats have only five players with an offensive rating over 100, but only three of them play more than 20 minutes per game, and only two have a usage rate over 20%.
Rodney McGruder, my sleeper pick for All Big 12 this preseason, has been K State's best player, but not first team All Big 12 caliber. His three point shooting has fallen to just 35%, down from 41% a year ago. He's drawing more fouls and turning it over less than he did a year ago, but his eFG has fallen to just over 50%, a byproduct of having to take more shots this year vs. last year, when the offense was dominated by Jacob Pullen. McGruder isn't the best example of this phenomenon, but he is a timely one: players with high usage rates and (relatively) lower offensive ratings are much more valuable than players with lower usage rates and moderately higher offensive ratings because of how tough it can be to maintain production and efficiency as your usage climbs. Remember that the next time Tyshawn Taylor gets criticized.
A big key to winning this one will be the battle on the glass. Kansas is 2nd in the league in defensive rebounding, whereas the Wildcats are the best in the league, and fourth in the country, at offensive rebounding. On the other side, KU has struggled a bit on the offensive glass, but Kansas State is among the worst defensive rebounding teams in the conference.
Because Kansas State forces so many turnovers, look for Kansas to turn it over quite a bit tonight. Because this is a matchup of the two quickest paced teams in the conference it could lead to some easy points for Kansas State, but if Kansas turns it over any significant amount less than K State opponents usually do they shouldn't be in too much danger. Contrary to the usual best strategy of the worse team wanting to play more slowly, the WIldcats will want to run as much as possible both to create havoc turnover wise and to prevent one of the best defenses in the country from getting set.
This probably won't be one of the more enjoyable games to watch. Kansas State usually plays Kansas fairly tough in Manhattan, and their frenetic style paired with the number of fouls their games feature doesn't provide the most aesthetically appealing basketball to watch. But assuming that Kansas can keep the turnovers relatively under control and Tyshawn Taylor stays out of foul trouble this should be a win for the visitors.
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battle
lets just hope the game does not come down to where a questionable call or calls by the officals will determine the result of the game. been there done that lol. don’t need a 2nd verse of the M—I—S—S—E—R—Y game let the players decide the game. still think and fully believe the T ROB call at miss was bullshit can the entire picture of that game. always been said if the officals are doin a good job you won’t know they are there. all i ask for is consistency. LETS GO HAWKS
If its that close, that's how it goes.
According to KSU fans, refs will never let it be that close.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
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Petro
just had the numbers on home vs. road foul differentials. KU’s road differential was really bad (anti-KU) and their home differential, despite the home court advantage, was only 5th best. Missouri was best both home and road, which is pretty insane.
actually
A) Yes they were
and
B) Especially given the result of the calls was a loss to the only team that can stop us from getting our 8th straight conference championship.
The poster formerly known as DCJayhawk0208
Don't you have anything better to do
Than to sit on our board and comment EVERY TIME a mention of Missouri pops up on here? Seriously dude.
And spare me the ’I’m just here to talk about the game" bullshit. I would have bought that over week ago but not now.
No one here cares for your opinion, especially since you just seem contempt with posting stupid (and thoroughly incorrect) garbage about the KU-MU game or the rivalry in general just to piss people off on a KU blog. That is called trolling. Please stop trolling.
No one here agrees with you. I thought we made that clear the 30th time you argued the charge calls with us or other aspects of the game. This isn’t changing.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks for putting an emphasis on "every time"...
That way I could be certain you meant the comment literally and immediately dismiss you as either irrational and/or delusional. But just for the sake of the argument. Its ironic that before the game Self went into great depth about how Missouri is great at taking charges, he even specifically mentioned Moore,and then after we get charges everyone goes ape shit. And, please, don’t mention the media’s response. The media love controversy. The first call was iffy, no doubt. But the second was probably better than 50/50. I’m not quiet sure what you expect on the road from officials, but I think those calls should be consistent with rationale expectations.
And hey, so long as you’re going over to Bring on the Cats and posting over 500 times, spare me the trolling lecture.
I'm not on there arguing specific calls with them in a game they lost
I posted over there today about the rivalry, hadn’t posted there in weeks. And if you want to comment on something like that, be my guest.
But you keep coming on a KU blog and defending a call that we all think is bullshit and was a big factor in our lost. One or two times, fine. State your opinion. After that, it is just pissing us off. Great, you think they were legit calls. I get it. You aren’t changing ANYONES OPINION OF THE CALL.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
Furthermore, you are criticizing KU fans for complaining about calls
On a KU blog, in our rivalry game that had Big 12 title implications. If you call us out over and over again in a “How DARE YOU COMPLAIN!” tone, well, its going to make me mad. We don’t want to hear about it from an MU fan.
If you can’t see that, well, maybe KU fans should have gone to RMN and argued with you every time KU beat MU over the past 10 years.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
it's funny you think you can just dismiss the media response so quickly
there are close calls in every game, even every big game. Why do you think national media seized on these particular calls in this particular game? Do you think they were throwing darts at the schedule to decide for which game they would call out the officials? Maybe you don’t think the calls were worth further discussion, but you’re in the minority of college basketball fans.
Use the forks
Don't worry PenHawk
You are going to think it was the right call after mpfische tells you it was ten more times. Just wait.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
the charge/block was called as a charge all game in columbia
so I think you’re asking for a bit more than consistency.
Is the claim here that every contact between a ballhandler and a defender's torso was called a charge
Because I don’t think you want to make that claim.
not at all
just that in situations where a call had to be made and it had to be charge or block, those referees went with the charge almost every time that night.
But the whole dispute is whether any call should have been made
You’re just assuming the conclusion.
no, my dispute is whether the poster above only wants consistency
The refs were consistent that night. They consistently called a charge when they had the option of charge or block.
There are always three options: charge, block, and no call
Just because they rarely called blocking fouls (I can remember only one) in the game doesn’t mean that they were consistent.
If the refs called minor contact as a charge while letting major contact go with a no call, that’s terribly inconsistent, regardless of whether they called zero or dozens of blocking fouls.
My objection to the call was that far more significant and intentional contact had resulted in a non-call throughout the game. To begin calling it a foul is inconsistent.
but that can be said for every basketball game ever played
contact is allowed in some situations and not in others. Contact while driving the lane almost always draws a foul one way or the other.
I'm not sure what your point is
The widespread objection to the call on Robinson is that contact that incidental is usually not called (including in that game). That’s why writers were reacting and calling it a terrible call.
When people ask for consistency, they’re asking for that contact to be called the same way over and over. When they complain that it was a bad call, they’re complaining about that inconsistency.
The fact that there were so many national writers complaining about that whistle ought to tell you that it is not generally perceived that that contact in that situation almost always draws a foul one way or the other.
Gonna need some good minutes from Young and Wesley
Can’t afford to have TRob and Jeff out there risking their fifth fouls.
It was armageddon....it was a FIREFIGHT!!!
Thinking about this game, I can’t get this scene out of my head…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff5DlpZiMZ0
The poster formerly known as DCJayhawk0208
Up to #4 in the AP and #5 in the Coaches' Poll
How wild is it that we have played each of the other teams in the top 6 other than Syracuse? This team definitely has been tested against some quality opponents, especially compared to some of our last few teams.
by 2.1 seconds left on Feb 13, 2012 12:50 PM CST reply actions
I don't understand this year in college baskeball
So many great players from last year stuck around for another year that I thought there would be several really good teams this year.
Yet, here we sit at #4 in the nation, despite being maybe 75% of the team we were last year (a stupid metric, but I don’t know how else to say it). And it’s not poll nonsense either. We really do deserve to be #4 in the nation at this point. It’s crazy.
Though I’ll continue to give props to Kentucky after seeing the Vanderbilt game. They are awfully good this year, and I really do think they’re a lot better than when we saw them last. Their defense was just stifling when they turned it on. It’s how Baylor should play defense.
I think the last year with several dominant teams was 2008
Coincidentally the year we won it all. All 4 Final four teams were stacked. The two seeds were loaded (Texas gave us all we could handle all year) as well. A lot of really good teams that were all capable of winning it all.
I don’t think we’ve seen that since.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
The talent pool is not what it looks like.
I think those ‘great players’ performed very well against the competition but I don’t think they are as great as their numbers would seem to indicate. I’ll still take just about any top 15 team from the 90’s against any of the Championship teams post 2001. We look at teams like Kentucky and say, wow they’re loaded! And compared to the rest of the teams, they are. But, these guys still are nowhere near their ceiling. Before all of this jumping to the NBA really got out of control, there were 30 teams every year that started all 5 and 4 star recruits. One team might pick up a class like UK but then those guys would stick around for three or four years so someone else would get the next batch. And just having those guys wouldn’t have been enough, they really would have to continue to develop.
I know it’s old hat but I really wish more players would stay. The NBA kills itself by taking these guys long before they’re ready and saying well, look at the potential. Yes, but how many will actually reach that potential? I would love to see some research on the past decade of draft picks and see who was successful and who wasn’t along with how many years they played.
I went off on a tangent...
My original point was, KU starts all 5 and 4 star recruits just like UK. They weren’t the super elite prospects but because they’ve all played a couple years they’ve had time to develop. This in turn allows them to stay competitive with just about any other team. I also have to say, I much prefer this strategy to Calipari’s. Bill Self, you sir are a fantastic coach.
The 2002 or 2003 KU team would dominate college basketball this year
The level of college basketball has unfortunately dropped off considerably in the last decade
Those were loaded years
2002 team was stacked. Unfortunately, it hit another stacked team in the Final 4 (Maryland). That is the crazy thing about the tournament. Some Final 4s are loaded, some are like last year’s who’s who of crap. Also what made last year so frustrating. Easy road to the title game… and we stumbled again.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
that 2002 semi
is still my least favorite sporting event ever
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
It's amazing to me that we had *8* losses in 2003
It’s hard to understand college basketball sometimes. Even against the much tougher competition of ten years ago, I feel like that team should have had no more than 2 or 3 losses on the season.
That trip to MSG was ugly that year.
I still have nightmares of North Carolina moving four players to one side, clearing the other, and running isolation plays over and over with out adjustments being made.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Yeah... it would kind of be like Missouri building a trophy case.
I mean… what good would it do?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Said the Mizzou fan, on a KU board,
commenting on a post that had nothing to do with Mizzou.
by sax solo on Feb 13, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
that makes almost as little sense in response to what I said as Andrew Clark's post
do you guys just draw your responses out of a hat or something?
If you are going to make fun of a KU team, on a KU board... As an MU fan...
Yep, smacktalk is likely going to happen.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 13, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
oh, i have no problem with smack talk
i just prefer smack talk that makes sense in the context that it’s posted.
To be fair,
They do need a spot to store that 1965 Men’s Indoor Track and Field trophy.
close charges
uh. if your sayin that the charge wasn’t that bad of a call then uh you was definetely wasn’t watchin the game i was watchin. and give me some of th shit you are smokin because it definetely cloude you vison. and it is a big deal because i fully believe that was a huge call that changed all the momentum around during that point of the game after that call it was downhill from there a charge on robinson then they turn around and come down and hit the 3 uh ya. talk to me some more. SERIOUSLY? the call against taylore i agree ya that was i think the right call but robinson’s not even close even our boy dicky v said quote unquote thats a terrible call GO HAWKS
digger
well mr phelps (digger ) youve outdone yourself. what a unbelievable brillant statment you made. how long did you really think before you made that unreal. when asked who his player of the year is mr phelps’s response? it has to be anthony davis because are you ready? because of his blocked shots ARE YOU SERIOUS? who do you think is more valuable to his team? anthony? or T ROB who means so much to ku who is so instrumental in their offense AND defense. T ROB is soooooo much more then just 1 category scoring, rebounding, shooting pct plus othres. he leads anthony in all of these plus throw his blks in more all around player who is depended on more. anthony is surrounded by ohter great players there is more pressureon robinson to produce our offense revolves around robinson. and you are sayin anthont is the player of the year because of his blocks? PLEASE. GO HAWKS
DIGGER
sorry fellow hawks fans. its just that digger got me sooo worked up when he made that crazy statement i let my mind outrace my fingers. i truly apologize never have been a very good typer or in grammer punct and such. anyways i hope you get my gest of all this. i don’t think i am that crazy for what i feel on these or predice just fact anyways. GO HAWKS
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