Iowa State Deals Kansas Its First Big 12 Loss
by Owen on Jan 28, 2012 3:16 PM CST
in Kansas Jayhawk Basketball 2011-12
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PrintWhen you're Kansas, it's just never fun to play in Ames. The Iowa State fans get up for this one, the players get up for this one and all that is evidenced by just the second home sellout for the Cyclones this season. Saturday it made for a tough environment and a very difficult game against an improving Cyclone program.
From the start this game was ugly. Kansas found themselves down early then used a run late in the 1st half to pull ahead before ultimately trailing by three at the intermission. Kansas had weathered the first half emotional storm and successfully managed a potentially damaging foul situation to head into the half feeling fortunate.
The second half started out on a positive note as the Jayhawk put some distance between themselves and the Cyclones as the offense started clicking. Then just as easily as things got going, they slipped away. Kansas wasn't sound offensively, Iowa State was fighting just a bit harder and Kansas just wasn't catching any breaks or making their own. Down the stretch Iowa State was poised and composed offensively and they executed while Kansas could not.
It's exactly why this matchup was a concern heading into the game and it's exactly the kind of game that wins conference championships. By no means did Kansas significantly hurt their chances at an eighth straight league title by losing this one. After all the Cyclones currently sit 5th in the league and are a likely tournament team. Kansas just had an opportunity to really help their chances and that's why it was all the more frustrating to watch Kansas not play well for most of the afternoon.
Kansas ends up losing this one in a close contest by a final score of 72 to 64. For the Cyclones, Royce White was key down the stretch and outplayed player of the year candidate Thomas Robinson. White finished with 18 points, 9 rebounds and 5 assists. Kansas was led Tyshawn Taylor who finished with 16 points and 10 assists.
Hats off to Fred Hoiberg and Iowa State for turning a corner. The Cyclones have another resume building win while Kansas takes a step back to 7-1 as they prepare to host Oklahoma on Wednesday. The Jayhawks now lead the conference by just one game as both Missouri and Baylor were able to win home games earlier in the afternoon.
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was ready for this loss
doesn’t make it easier but was ready for it. We’re still a game up and we will learn from it. I never hate regular season losses more than just that day because teams always learn so much from them.
I’m sure it’s been talked about, but wow, Teahan has really gone down hill. I hate to say it because we need him but he cannot play as much if this continues. Question is: who replaces him?
by I need more Esteban on Jan 28, 2012 3:19 PM CST reply actions
We should have been integrating Young
more all season long. Teahan just isn’t remotely close to Tyrady Morningreed level and it hurts us.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Young isn't showing me anything
We have no useful depth. I think that’s mainly a disappointing recruiting class whose 3 best players can’t play for us this season.
I think he has the ability to be a good player but he's not ready right now.
Maybe if he played more, he’d fit in better. He doesn’t seem to totally grasp the offense and his defense is flat out bad.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I think, among other things, he needs to get much stronger
I don’t see him ever becoming a Teahan-style outside specialist and he’s just not strong enough to match up inside.
Can't really replace him now
Self made his bed with Teahan and has to sleep in it now. He had the opportunity to throw some other guys to the fire earlier this season and never really did it. Too late to do it now, probably.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jan 28, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Kevin Young was 1-6 this game and they were leaving him wide open
I don’t see how Young is the answer. Some years, we just don’t have the players.
1-5
I would have preferred that he drove toward the basket when he was left wide-open, maybe try to draw contact or hope a defender would peel off T-Rob for an assist.
There's plenty of blame to go around
TRob threw the ball out of bounds on an uncontested dunk attempt.
Young blew how many wide open shots
Withey sits half the game b/c of 2 moving (?) picks
…
Plenty of other possesions that could have turned the game from an L 2 W.
KU scored 6 points in just under 12 full minutes in the second half.
From the 16:13 mark to the 4:25 mark, the score went from 47-41 KU, to 58-53 ISU. That’s a hell of a lot more than just rebounding and Teahan.
Does our two games against ISU make anyone else worry about the MU games?
Seems like they’re similar teams to my fairly non-basketball knowledge eyes.
No more than I already was.
I have always thought we’ll split with MU this year. They are a pretty good team.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I thought we'd split too, but after today I'm worried we'll lose both.
Seems to me MU can/will do a lot of the same thing ISU did, but I think MU is a more talented team which makes me worry quite a bit about the game in Lawrence.
Probably just my pessimism coming through.
It's certainly possible...
I just think the homecourt factor in Lawrence this year is going to be huge.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
MU doesn't scare me as much as the return to Baylor
we don’t do well against versatile bigs, MU has none of those. Our guards can match up well with any guards. We should be fine the rest of the way. As long as we’re not in foul trouble of course. There is no young Cole Aldrich coming into the game to dominate a Tyler Hansbrough this year.
I'm worried about Withey committing the same sorts of perimeter fouls against MU
He’s pretty good about avoiding foul trouble against the big men.
You mean Tyshawn can match up with any guards
I have no confidence in anything that EJ brings to the court. He can’t, or won’t, drive or create his own shot off the dribble, he’s been incredibly cold from behind the arc, and the offense always stalls when TT sits and he runs the point. I’m usually pleased with his defense, but even that was lackluster today as Christoperson beat him on back screens at the top of the key several times today.
Johnson can play really good defense when he is focused
Releford plays awesome defense. Basically, when everyone is focused (and they will be for both MU games) we can lock their guards down. If it does not happen then we didn’t come to play.
by Lucamachine on Jan 28, 2012 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
mu's bigs are rooted as the pivot for the 4 G's
totally different IMO from ISU. That and their D stinks.
I really feel like Iowa State is just a tough matchup
for us for whatever reason. White seems to beat us inside and really our interior which looks so good in other games, struggles against the Cyclones.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I felt that we never matched ISU's energy from the tip, they abused us on the boards and repeatedly got to every loose ball
It was almost like our players had bought into all the media hype this week about this being their possible first loss and showed up in Ames already accepting that they couldn’t win.
No bench. Absolutely no depth and no bench.
Our starters all shot pretty well. Robinson struggled a bit, but Taylor was 6-11. Johnson was 4-6, Releford 3-5, Withey 4-5.
Then the bench. Three guys played off the pine.
Teahan 1-7
Young 1-5
Wesley 5 minutes
Jesus Christ. Look I love Self, but too often he sticks with an experienced guy whos been in the system over a young inexperienced guy. You could argue that guys like Releford and Little should have been playing over guys like Morningstar in the past, but Morningstar was head and shoulders above Teahan (which is tough for me to admit because Morningstar was my least favorite KU player…ever almost).
Teahan isn’t good. He shouldn’t be playing 15-20 minutes in a big 12 game. Ever. And it is probably too late to throw a guy like Lindsay or Tharpe out there. Should have happened more in the noncon.
Our starting 5 is very good, but having absolutely no bench will be cost this team. Its too bad, I can’t help but wonder what might have been had McLemore not been ineligible (Self has said he easily would be seeing minutes this season).
Shit happens when you win championships
I said before and I'll say it again every time
I trust Self’s judgment in evaluating players.
I do agree that if the 3 ineligible freshmen had been able to play, this team could have been a strong Final Four contender.
by KSinDC on Jan 28, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I second that, I trust that Self has a little better handle on this rotation than we as fans do.
We’ve seen what Tharpe can do the last two times he’s gotten minutes and frankly it was embarrassing to watch. Lindsey hasn’t sniffed important game minutes all year and even in his clean up minutes it’s clear to me that he doesn’t belong in the regular rotation.
It just comes down to us not having the horses this year and we got beat in a hostile environment by a team with decent talent that has been coached up. It’s just one loss, and on the road to boot, the sky isn’t falling.
by De-Freeze on Jan 28, 2012 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is the first conference loss
The first – high expectations have made many fans quick to criticize. It’s good to see Hilton as a tough place to play again. This team wasn’t going through the league unbeaten and was due for a loss.
The talk about our bench is warranted, but ISU's wasn't much better
Ten points, four rebounds total. Great bench play could have saved us today, but their starters flat out beat our starters.
R.I.P. DOM
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2012 3:35 PM CST reply actions
I see 15 points and 10 rebounds at ESPN for their bench.
Outscored by 10 there. They also outscored us by 15 at the free throw line. It’s tough to win when that happens.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Those rebounds probably mattered even more than the points
The Iowa State bench had as many rebounds as our starters. That’s awful.
???
http://m.espn.go.com/ncb/gamecast?gameId=320280066
I see Booker had 7 and Allen had 3 points. Have a link to something different?
R.I.P. DOM
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 29, 2012 2:41 AM CST up reply actions
Allen is a starter.
McGee was the one off the bench. Not sure why that has them switched.
Next five are HUGE
OU, @MU @Baylor, OSU, @KSU.
We could easily come out of that with a 9-4 league record and find ourselves chasing MU and Baylor again.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I'm disappointed
as we all are after watching us lose to a less talented team. That said, this happens basically every year. Whether it’s Texas Tech, or Okie State, or Iowa State…teams drop road games they shouldn’t. Even great teams do it. It sucks that we blew the two game cushion, but we need to put it behind us and make sure we bring it in our upcoming road games. If we can do that, we’ll be ok
Use the forks
by PenHawk on Jan 28, 2012 4:12 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Thank you
I can’t believe all of the frustration I’m hearing from Kansas fans. Losing today was almost a given…. So much do that I was eyeing the ISU money line (270). Ultimately, I can never pull the trigger against us, but that’s neither here nor there. We were due for a road stinker and I’d MUCH rather it be in Ames than Columbia. Sure, there’s a little more pressure, but since when is that a bad thing? Enjoy the ride.
by hiphopopotamus on Jan 28, 2012 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I avoid a lot the die hards on days like today. Maybe "die hards" isn't a good term as I've posted here all day but...
the people who really live and die with each game. Those are the ones that freak out after today. I do think today showed that winning the Big 12 is far from a given with this team.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
For sure..
It’s a good little reminder that as recently as a few weeks ago we were all asking about 14-4 or 15-3 winning the league. By no means is that a given, but we’re still in prett good shape there.
by hiphopopotamus on Jan 28, 2012 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if freak out is the right term
But today just kind of heightened what we have been fearing. Like I said earlier, I’m not sure what school I’d trade our starting five for. But you got to have depth and other options. TRob and Tyshawn can’t play in 5th gear every time. Just isn’t going to happen. I was expecting a few games like this, just sucks when the fears get exposed.
I’m a Packer fan, and all year they won despite having one of the worst defenses in the league. And I just kept getting that feeling that when it mattered, it would bite us in the ass. And the offense had some fumbles in the playoffs and boom, 37-20 loss. After a 15-1 season.
I just feel like the writing is on the wall. I knew this wouldn’t be a banner year, but the way our guys have played, the way Withey has come into his own and guys like Releford taking the next step… my expectations rose. This lose by no means affects the big picture we lose on the road to a good team. Its just a reminder that our bench is very bad, we rely on Teahan for minutes and that just scares the crap out of me.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jan 29, 2012 1:47 AM CST up reply actions
So it goes with college basketball
A team is only as good as their last game. I still feel good about splitting with MU, beating Baylor and K-State again then losing a game the Jayhawks have no business losing sometime in late February.
by jhwk316 on Jan 28, 2012 4:18 PM CST via Android app reply actions
teahan
man conner is killin us right now. he is in the game for a purpose or at least one thing that is surpose to be more meaninful on his part. and that is knockin down treys and he is not cuttin it. he is a liability on defense so with the combo of the two things he needs to sit at this point he is hurting us more then helpin us vey little contribution and ya our depth is really showin its going to be a long stretch comin up if we don’t get some things straightened up. getting out rebounded like we did is just really sad. i will bet you anything that ain’t happening wednsday its gonna be a long cople of days at practice
shift key.
The name of that song played at KC Comets games in the '80's was Giorgio Moroder's "The Chase." Now you know.
I'm just kidding around, but IS THIS BETTER?
MAN CONNER IS KILLIN US RIGHT NOW. HE IS IN THE GAME FOR A PURPOSE OR AT LEAST ONE THING THAT IS SURPOSE TO BE MORE MEANINFUL ON HIS PART. AND THAT IS KNOCKIN DOWN TREYS AND HE IS NOT CUTTIN IT. HE IS A LIABILITY ON DEFENSE SO WITH THE COMBO OF THE TWO THINGS HE NEEDS TO SIT AT THIS POINT HE IS HURTING US MORE THEN HELPIN US VEY LITTLE CONTRIBUTION AND YA OUR DEPTH IS REALLY SHOWIN ITS GOING TO BE A LONG STRETCH COMIN UP IF WE DON’T GET SOME THINGS STRAIGHTENED UP. GETTING OUT REBOUNDED LIKE WE DID IS JUST REALLY SAD. I WILL BET YOU ANYTHING THAT AIN’T HAPPENING WEDNSDAY ITS GONNA BE A LONG COPLE OF DAYS AT PRACTICE
by kansasjohn on Jan 29, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Pretty sure I predicted this loss.
Not happy about it, but let’s be honest, folks: this is a good KU team, not a great one. They’re gonna lose some games. They’re gonna win a lot, but let’s not get too down because we lost to a very good team at a very difficult venue (at least historically) for KU.
Regroup against OU, then prepare for Mizzou.
Criticize FHOFNCHCBS at your own risk...
OU's up 10 on K-State right now at Manhattan.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Anyone else get the feeling that Martin's luster is dulling in Manhatten?
KC media has been hounding him pretty good lately about his coaching philosophies and how players aren’t improving under his coaching and seem to be tuning him out this year. Interesting how all of this is coming to light now that his team is mediocre.
I'm not ready to concede that yet.
He’s definitely go a style that is all his own and maybe it will rub some players the wrong way, but at this point it is his program and his guys so they knew what they were getting into. They lost a lot from last year, Pullen was a hell of a player. I’m not surprised that they are taking some lumps this year. All in all I still like Martin, but I’m sure an argument could be made from either side.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
I think Pullen covered up a lot of his faults and that's showing.
I think Martin’s the type of coach that will have a team that is always decent and tough to beat. They’re going to be aggressive and rough which will give people fits when they face them.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
They were that way tonight... and lost.
You need talented offensive players who can score. KState has McGruder and no one else who can consistently knock down shots and score.
People always look at Wisconsin and mock how they play ugly games, are all about D, etc. Difference is, Bo Ryan always has a few guys who can shoot lights out (lately it was Taylor, Leuer, etc. Before he had Tucker, Devin Harris back in the day, etc) and create offense.
For KSU, their style is going to keep them in most games. Problem is, you got to score. And when you watch them run “offense” its pretty telling. Just isn’t good.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jan 29, 2012 1:52 AM CST up reply actions
Agree but I didn't think they were all that tough last night while watching.
The famous Octagon of DOOM was dead. The players didn’t seem to have a ton of energy.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I turned the game on when it was 40-30.
Now it’s 42-42 and I’m thinking I should change the channel.
I'm cheering for them. I don't think they're that good this year and it's good for us when they're good.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
A win would have put them too close to us in the standings for my comfort.
They would have only been two games back, and with the Baylor and Missouri games coming up, we could easily have been tied or only one game up on them heading into Manhattan (Which I suppose could still happen). That’s not something I want to see.
That's understandable.
But I think it’s pretty clear they’re not a contender for the conference title unless McGruder goes into national player of the year mode every single night for the rest of the season. I didn’t consider them a threat before tonight.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Fitting that they all reveled in a KU loss (which means more to them than a KSU win)
And then their team got dropped at home.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jan 29, 2012 1:48 AM CST up reply actions
I don't see how anyone could pick this team to get out of the second round of the tournament this year
Teams like Davidson or ISU are exactly the type of opponent we would face there. And it won’t be because of a lack of talent or “X’s and O’s.” it’ll be because of a lack of mental focus or sufficient respect for the opponent. We’ve all seen this movie before. And that’s very frustrating.
R.I.P. DOM
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 29, 2012 3:00 AM CST reply actions
I never claim to have any idea what will happen
In the NCAA Tournament. The only thing that would truly surprise me is an appearance in the championship game
Use the forks
by PenHawk on Jan 29, 2012 6:24 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
As long as
Hilton doesn’t host the 2nd round game I’m not worried.
by bigreed on Jan 29, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As long as you were saying that after the Baylor win...
I’ll take you seriously. If not, try to remember that losses happen and while this team has plenty of faults, they’ve still come together pretty nicely and earned the benefit of the doubt.
by hiphopopotamus on Jan 29, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
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