KU Football: The All-Decade Team
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 9:00 AM CDT
in Kansas Jayhawk Football 2011
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PrintWith all the talk at kusports.com about all-decade teams for basketball, I started wondering who would be on such a team for the football side of things. Some were no-brainers, but a lot of positions were tough to narrow down. I considered making a second-team, but at several spots I felt like I was really scraping the bottom of the barrel, so I stuck with just one.
The ground rules are simple: the field is limited to any player who saw time between the years of 2000 and 2010. I've included stats for the positions where stats are attainable and/or relevant. I'm sure some of these selections will generate some spirited discussion, but hey, that's all we have this time of year, isn't it?
Now, without further ado, the PenHawk All-Decade Jayhawk Football Team...
OFFENSE
OL - Justin Hartwig
OL - Anthony Collins
OL - Adrian Jones
OL - Caesar Rodriguez
OL - Ryan Cantrell
TE - Derek Fine (98 rec, 1009 yds, 10 TDs)
WR - Kerry Meier (226 rec, 2309 yds, 18 TDs)
WR - Dezmon Briscoe (219 rec, 3240 yds, 31 TDs)
WR - Mark Simmons (155 rec, 2161 yds, 16 TDs)
RB - Clark Green (641 att, 2754 yds, 13 TDs, 122 rec, 1279 yds, 2 TDs)
RB - Jake Sharp (450 att, 2200 yds, 23 TDs, 84 rec, 778 yds, 6 TDs)
QB - Todd Reesing (932/1461, 11,194 yds, 90 TDs) ::head explodes::
Honorable mention offense: Marcus Henry, Jon Cornish, Bill Whittemore, Brandon Rideau, Joe Vaughn
DEFENSE
DT - James McClinton
DT - Nate Dwyer
DE - David McMillan (150 tack, 30 TFL, 15 sacks, 5 FF, 2 FR, 2 ints, 3 defensive TDs)
DE - Jake Laptad (145 tack, 27 TFL, 20.5 sacks, 3 FF, 2 safties)
LB - Mike Rivera (300 tack, 25 TFL, 6 sacks, 7 FF, 1 int)
LB - James Holt (231 tack, 30.5 TFL, 9 sacks, 6 FF, 2 FR, 1 int)
LB - Joe Mortensen (282 tack, 35 TFL, 9 sacks, 3 FF)
CB - Aqib Talib
CB - Charles Gordon
S - Darrell Stuckey
S - Jerome Kemp
Honorable Mention Defense: Charlton Keith, Nick Reid, Kevin Kane, Justin Thornton
SPECIAL TEAMS
PK - Johnny Beck
P - Alonso Rojas
KR/PR - Charles Gordon
Honorable Mention S/T: DJ Beshears
That's what I came up with, after a lot of thought and digging through stats. See some players you feel I overlooked? Let's hash it out in the comments section.
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A good list
I’ll propose a few other options at positions for arguments sake:
1) I’d include Joe Vaughn at OL. He was the team’s offensive MVP in 2003 and Big 12 offensive newcomer of the year in 2002. Not sure who’d I’d swap out, but feel like Vaughn deserves a starting spot. Maybe Cantrell.
2) Charlton Keith was a much better end than Laptad. Laptad has better stats playing for 3 seasons, but Keith’s senior year was more dominant than any season Laptad or McMillan had. Not just sacks, he was constantly pressuring the backfield. I’d make him a starter. Plus Laptad’s stats are padded. Out of his 20 sacks, I’m pretty sure like half came against KState and Colorado alone (who both had downright embarrassing offensive lines while he played).
3) How could you leave off Nick Reid? He was the Big 12 defensive player of the year. Guy’s the best defender in the league a season and is only honerable mention on our all-decade team? I’d put him in over Rivera. I liked Rivera a lot, but also thought he was somewhat overrated.
4) I’d make Scott Webb the kicker, not Johhny Beck. Beck was like 7 of 17 on FGs his sophmore year, then 10 of 16 his senior year. Webb had better stats and made the clutch Iowa State FG. I’d put him at number one for sure.
5) Jon Cornish absolutely has to be the starting RB over Green or Sharp. Cornish’s senior season was a monster campaign and he set the KU record for yards in a season. He played along Green too and was easily the better back (and ended up stealing a lot of carries from Green in 2005). I’d swap Cornish and Green because Cornish had a better average, was much more explosive, and singly handidly carried an offense in 2006. Green had a decent year when Wittemore was chucking it around in 2003, and was painfully average afterwards.
Shit happens when you win championships
Agreed.
Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year and he doesn’t make your list?
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
The only LB I'd consider taking off is Mortensen
until I see Nick Reid in an NFL uniform.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 11:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The game played in the NFL and the game played at the college level
are not the same thing.
If you’re giving ANY weight to whether or not a college football player makes it to the NFL, you’re skewing the results.
The Nick was the best college football LB KU had during the last decade. Unfortunately, he didn’t have the size or speed to get drafted professionally. But that fact doesn’t impact the previous statement.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
He was signed by the Chiefs, he just got cut after two years and a swing through the Euro league
But since you need to see him in NFL attire, here is his Chiefs’ headshot:
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Loved him in Bad Santa
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
lol
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I was anticipating a couple of these
First though, I meant Webb at kicker, not Beck. That was a brain cramp on my part.
As for Keith and Cornish, they were left off as part of how I determined who to put on the team. Keith and Cornish had better single seasons and were probably better players than Laptad and Green. However, Laptad and Green were four year players who were getting immediate PT even as freshman. Green basically ended up our feature back all four years he was here. For that reason, I felt like they did more for KU than Cornish, who really just had one really good season, and Keith, who was a juco transfer. If I did this based purely off talent, John Randle would actually have been my top RB. Instead, I went with overall contribution.
As for Reid, he was the best player I left off the list. But Rivera was an absolute beast for 3 years, got 300 tackles, and is still floating around the NFL. Holt was an incredible athlete who could rush the passer, stuff the run, and drop into coverage (also in the NFL), and Mortensen was just a monster. Reid was great too, but someone was going to get left out.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 10:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just because someone played longer (and has more stats) doesn't make them more worthy, IMHO
Green’s stats: 641 att, 2,754 yds, 13 TDs, 4.2 ypc average
Cornish stats: 384 att, 2,237 yds, 17 TDs, 5.8 ypc average
Green has 500 more yards because he played more, otherwise Cornish dominates in every category. More touchdowns (despite a few hundred less carries) and the ypc difference is ginormous.
Green was an average back who lost the feature roll TWICE to better players. As a junior he lost his feature roll to John Randle (and only rushed for 309 yards that season). As a senior, he lost the feature role to Cornish.
So our best RB of this decade wasn’t the feature back two of the four years he played for us. Green had two decent seasons his first two years, rushing for 813 and 968 yards. Then he added to his stats, slightly, in more of a backup roll his next two seasons.
I think that, plus the stats I provided above, push Cornish into the starting spot. Plus he was just plain better.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm with you on the Green/Cornish debate
So our best RB of this decade wasn’t the feature back two of the four years he played for us.
This is pretty damning. Especially when the two years he lost out on the feature role were the Junior and Senior campaigns when he should have the reigns firmly in his grasp if he’s to be the best.
I also agree that you have to have Reid on the list. I know Mort, Holt and Rivera all were good, but I gotta give the props to Reid. I seem to remember being frustrated with Rivera and over-pursuing for almost his entire career. I’m sure it is bigger in my head than it was in reality, but that was my lingering impression that would tip the scale slightly towards Reid.
Yeah, I broke it down uber specific in my comment above
But you can easily sum it up like this:
Green – Got RB job because we had no one else, had two decent seasons (round 900 yards and 4 ypc), lost feature back roll next two seasons to more talented backs.
Cornish – Breaks on to scene, has one good season (800 yards, nearly 6 ypc) and then one monster season (1400 yards, nearly 6 ypc).
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Corn Dog
Led the conference in rushing his final season. I can’t remember the last time a KU back did that. That, all by itself, makes him the best back of the decade.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
I believe he was also like seventh in the nation
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
OK, OK
Looking back, since Cornish led the conference in rushing and had a substantially better ypc, I’ll admit I might put him in for Green if I redid this. That’s why he was honorable mention in the first place. However, I won’t back down on Laptad’s inclusion, or Reid’s omission.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 11:34 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Im glad to hear this...
And I’ll give you the Laptad over Keith argument, even if I disagree. Same with Cantrell over Joe Vaughn (or even David Ochoa).
But not having Nick Reid on there just doesn’t even make a little bit of sense. The only guy even in the debate with Reid is Holt. However, Reid was an OLB so the logical move is to replace Rivera and leave Mortensen in the middle. I’m happy to debate, but I am so confused that anyone out there thinks otherwise.
by hiphopopotamus on Jun 9, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I mean
You point out Rivera was a three year starter, but so was Reid. And Reid’s numbers are insane. Here ya go:
Reid finished his college career with 416 tackles (254 solo), 41.0 tackles for loss (-154.0 yards), 14.0 sacks (-85.0 yards), three interceptions, fourteen passes defensed, six forced fumbles and one fumble recovery. His 416 career tackles put him second in school records behind LB Willie Pless. He was named Big 12 Defensive Player of the Year, was a member of the First-Team All-Big 12 selection as well as a Third-Team College Football All-American selection as a senior in 2005.
Read that paragraph, and then tell me how Reid isn’t the best LB of the decade, let alone deserving to be one of the three
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
oh dear
I may have to eat some crow here, fellas…
I’ll take you through my thought process…when I was just going through this in my head, I had Holt, Rivera, and Reid. When I was looking at numbers (and tackle numbers were evading me since my usual site, sports-reference.com, doesn’t track them for college players) I somehow found that Reid only had 200-ish tackles. I thought that seemed low, but figured I misremembered some things about his career. That led to my decision to go with Mortensen over him.
Now that I’ve found he had 416 tackles, and was a 3 year starter, yeah, I’d put him back in over Mortensen. My reliance on numbers betrayed me here. My amended LB list…
Rivera, Reid, Holt
I’m an idiot.
Yeah he had monster stats
But no worries, its impossible to do one of these types of posts and not forget something/someone that should be in there (see my greatest KU football games of the last decade post). There were like three I missed that could/should have been on there.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions
My only defense
is that his career was ‘02-’05, during which time I was an undergrad in Lawrence. I may never have actually watched him play sober.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 1:21 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Thats my defense for most of the women I was with
Before the fiance
Shit happens when you win championships
That's a damn good defense
In my opinion. I was also an undergrad during most of the time, but I probably watched sober in 05.
All that PLUS
He had an opposing team’s coach make his starting QB wear his name “Nick” on his Jersey as a tribute to what college football players should be.
I mean jeebus. No offense Pen, but if The Pirate were here right now in this debate, he’d make you walk the plank.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
The only place Green was better than Cornish
was picking up blitzers. That’s more than half the reason Cornish wasn’t on the field more often (the other being he was in Mangino’s infamous doghouse).
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
And he was from Canada
Lets not forget that part
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I already said Cornish was the better player
mostly it was just giving props to Green for being our starting running back from the day he stepped into Lawrence as a true freshman, and generally holding the job until he left. Maybe it’s a cheesy way of looking at it, but it’s how I picked. The dude had about 4,000 yards of total offense for us in his time at KU.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 11:01 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't neccessarily look at my comments as saying you are wrong
Look at them more as “I’m really really bored, way too excited for football to start (even though we suck) and wanted an excuse to mindlessly talk and debate KU football and players from my time in school”
Dangling an All-Decade KU football team in front of me is like handing a hobo a ham sandwich. No way I’m not plowing through it! Hell I’ll make arguments against Reesing, don’t think I won’t (I won’t)
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
That's where I'm coming from too
Hell, half the reason I did this is so we could all argue about it. I need my football fix.
As for Reesing, I’ll just throw this out there…if you give Wild Bill Whittemore the same supporting cast and three years of starting that Reesing had, does he replicate Reesing’s results? I won’t necessarily say yes, but it’s something to think about.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 11:12 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Or what if Meier wins the job?
They were pretty neck and neck in camp. How does the offense perform with Meier at QB1? Imagine him running the option with Sharp, rather than that “option” Reesing and Sharp ran…
Be interesting. How would he have developed as a passer? How different would the play calling have been? Would KU have had the most rushing yards in America in 2007 (with Meier, Anderson, Sharp all running amok)? Would he still have grown that insanely cool yet sketchy moustache? Would Reesing have transferred?
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Meier wouldn't have Meier as a target
I don’t know if the ’07, ’08, ’09 offenses would have been the same if Briscoe was our only dangerous target at receiver.
Well his first season...
He would have had Henry and Fields as well, so lots of targets for sure. But yeah, after that he would have had Briscoe and…. Wilson?
Although I’d point out we’d be running the ball a whole lot more so it might not be as big a factor (rather than all those games where Reesing had like 50+ attempts). A fair point though, Meier was huge for Reesing.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Keith was a stud
1st team all big 12 that year. Keith or McClinton were the only dominate D lineman for KU in the last decade. The rest of the D lineman were decent but not difference makers. I’ll take a stud for 1 yr over a average player that plays 4 years. I mean how many guys get named as honorable mentioned. We haven’t had solid pass rusher since he left.
Laptad certainly wasn't jaw-dropping
But at the same time, I wouldn’t call the guy second on KU’s all-time sack list “average,” either. Laptad was a very solid college level DE for four years. I’ve backed off a couple of the picks on this list, but I won’t budge on this one.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 1:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'll give you better than average.
Solid player but not someone you had to worry about on offense. I just see McMillan and Laptad as similar, good solid college football players. I’d give the edge to McMillan. I just see Talib, McClinton and Keith as our 3 most explosive players and to not include one them over a steady 3-4 year player is wrong. I’ll probably get ripped for not including one of the LB’s but so be it.
McMillan
Spent some time in the NFL with the Browns. I’m not sure Keith ever made a team.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 4:12 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He didn't
He got a cup of coffee at Cleveland. There was a lot of talk of him being a first day draft pick but he was 30 lbs pound undersized. Awesome college player wish we had 2 of him for next year.
He spent 3 years in Cleveland on the pro roster
Keith spent one year on Cleveland’s practice squad, then a year on Oakland’s.
At any rate, I’d take either of them back. I’d take two Laptads. I might even take two Russell Brorsens at this point.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 4:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Seems like he'd be a great fit for a 3-4 LB with his speed
The 3-4 keeps getting more popular. A lot fewer teams used it back in 2005. I bet he’d get a better crack at the pros if he came out now
Shit happens when you win championships
I thought Anthoney Webb would for sure make it at CB
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I might have to do a pseudo-All-Deade team next week
Make the worst players. Set a limit, like they had to have started at least 4 games or something…
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 9, 2011 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Who gets the nod at QB?
Jason Swanson?
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 4:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I take that back
As it stands now, Mecham and Webb should both be ahead of Swanson in line for that list.
by PenHawk on Jun 9, 2011 4:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Nah Swanson played pretty well.
You’d have to put Swanson over Barmann and Luke. Afterall, he beat both of them out of the starting QB spot his senior year…
I love Luke for that gutsy, virtuoso performance in the comeback against Iowa State… but he’d probably have to get it. Barmann’s stats are too inflated after he had insanely good statistical games against Toledo in 04 and Nebraska in 06 (the one where he threw for like 4 TDs and 400 yards in three quarters)
Shit happens when you win championships
Apparently...
You’re all forgetting Marcus Herford, or even Mario Kinsey.
by hiphopopotamus on Jun 10, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Herford never actually played at QB though
I think we’re going for guys who just, uh, didn’t excel.
by PenHawk on Jun 10, 2011 8:39 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He got some PT at QB
In 2005 he played like a half in a noncon game (we were already up by like 20) and got a few other snaps here and there.
But like I said, it’d have to have a criteria of “started x amount of games” or something like that
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 10, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Grad
You were a kicker, what are your thoughts on Rojas making all decade team as the punter?
I haven’t looked up the stats to support this, but I think Kyle Tucker was better. Maybe Rojas’ dreadful performance last season is still weighing on me………
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Or that Rojas had 20 yards of roll every kick
Any idea who had better net yards.
And Tucker could tackle
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Interestingly, both had similar careers
They peaked around their sophomore/junior seasons and then regressed as seniors.
I don’t have the stats, but I believe Tucker had a real good year his sophomore year, then kind of struggled his junior year. His senior year (the orange bowl season), he really didn’t punt that often. Not only did our offense not punt often, but remember that Kerry Meier punt thing we did? Where we lined up in a traditional shotgun and the offense wouldn’t know if we were punting or going for it? We did that quite a bit too.
Its kind of apples and oranges though, Tucker was a traditional NFL style punter and Rojas was a rugby-style punter. My only argument for Tucker would be that Tucker spent most of his career punting for a really struggling offense. So maybe he is more important and had more pressure? I dunno. But Tucker was HUGE for us his sophomore year (2005) when we made a bowl with a good defense and a terrible offense. That was his best season and he booted us out of trouble often, keeping us in games.
Shit happens when you win championships
Here is a blurb from the Topekie Capital Journal on Tucker after his sophomore year:
“University of Kansas punter Kyle Tucker has been named to the preseason watch list for the 2006 Ray Guy Award, the Greater Augusta Sports Council announced Tuesday. The award is given to the top Division 1A punter in collegiate football.
Tucker recorded an average of 42.9 yards per punt attempt last season, landing 19 kicks inside the 20-yard line. He launched a season-long boot of 77 yards against Texas Tech on Oct. 1."
So I guess my take on the punters is this: Rojas has the slightly better career stats, but Tucker had the best regular season and was more important to the team he punted for. His ability to bail us out of trouble and pin teams deep in their own territory was huge for us in 2005, which may make me give the nod to him. Tough call though.
On the other hand, a friend of mine played a pick up basketball game with Rojas in lawrence and said he was a really cool guy and could ball, so now I don’t know what to think.
Shit happens when you win championships
Didn't Kyle Tucker
also handle kick off duties for a short time too?
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Tucker is the pick for me too...although I was pleased with both
Tucker’s stats dropped, simple because of how they had him punting. But that guy was a hell of a punter.
by hiphopopotamus on Jun 10, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm a little surprised
I haven’t caught any flack for Charles Gordon as the return man. He was an outstanding punt return man, but only returned two kickoffs (though it was just to protect him, and I think we can all agree he would have been great at that, too). Any arguments for Beshears, Herford, anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
by PenHawk on Jun 10, 2011 8:46 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Statistically there's an argument for both...
but you won’t hear it from me. Beshears certainly could be the guy, and we’ll know soon enough. But Herford was 100% a product of his blocking. He couldn’t change direction if his life depended on it, but he could run a fast straight line, and that kick return group usually afforded him some room.
by hiphopopotamus on Jun 10, 2011 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions
I'll go with
Jonathan Lamb. Because I never worried about the ball hitting the turf with that dude. Great hands on that kid.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Yeah Herford had a monster 2007 season at KR
But he usually didn’t see a defender until around the 25 – 30 yard line. The next season, our ST struggled, and he was never the same.
THe only guy who worked at KR after Herford and before Beshears was actually Briscoe. Remember how many monster returns he had against Mizzou in the epic border war win? He was actually a hell of a returner, we just couldn’t risk getting him hurt.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Jun 10, 2011 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Totally disagree on Briscoe
His athleticism bought him a few nice returns, but I watched that guy repeatedly run into walls of his own defenders because he couldn’t find the seam. He just didn’t have great instincts.
by PenHawk on Jun 10, 2011 10:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
*his own blockers, not defenders
by PenHawk on Jun 10, 2011 10:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
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