Year Two Feels a lot Like Year One
Pre-Snap Read talks a little Kansas football...
Basically, year two for Gill is more like year one. Or what year one is supposed to be for a rookie coach, rather: a bad team, a lack of identity and a tough road to climb, ingredients for a rebuilding season. So how did we get to this point?
about 1 year ago
Warden11
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I think the QB issue - or lack of QB - isn't brought up enough
The article says Gill switched QBs a lot – but that’s not really true. Pick wasn’t their guy, but they wanted to give the incumbent a chance (or at least appear to), then Webb started consistently until he was hurt, and came back once he was healthy.
Outside of giving up on Pick too early (easy for us to say, hard to really know), what is Gill supposed to do: he’s got no real QB. So he’s recruited a couple QBs with high upside, built up the line and made sure the RB isn’t going to be the problem.
Until Webb grows into a real QB or one of the new guys steps up, the offense is going to be stuck, and I’m not sure there’s much Gill et al can do about it.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 20, 2011 4:23 PM CDT reply actions
That article wasn't written very well.
There’s lots of stuff you can bash Gill over, but this article seemed like it was just based on nothing more than a casual observation of our season last year.
Article is spot on.....
not sure why so many dont understand that. The 2010 QB saga is repeating itself in 2011. Coaches have done a poor job evaluating and developing a QB. That doesnt seem to have changed.
by hawk37 on May 20, 2011 8:44 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
As Sagehen noted above
Webb won the job with his GT performance, then kept it until he got hurt. When he was healthy, he got it back. The only way they may have screwed it up was by going with Pick in the beginning, but rumor has it Long wanted Webb all along anyway.
KU’s QB problem is that none of them are very good.
by PenHawk on May 20, 2011 9:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Like I said....
The article wasn’t written very well IMO. If the author had stated what you just wrote, it would have made more sense to me. That is a pretty good point that this year will be more of the same due to the repeating QB saga. At the same time, though, when the talent at QB is so low, what can you do?
I agree
I thought this article was excellent.
Let’s not forget that while Kale Pick was given the start against NDSU, he was not allowed to finish. Just when he started to get momentum, Gill inexplicably yanks him and put in Webb. That was the first of MANY wtf? moments surrounding Gill and his staff last season.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Agreed that Gill and co. had a lot of wtf moments
but that wasn’t one of them. Pick never had any momentum in that game. He looked lost and confused the whole time, and it wasn’t until Webb came in that KU looked like they had any chance of moving the ball. Unfortunately, it was too little, too late.
Bad article, bad QB situation
Name a coaching staff that could do better with the QBs KU has. We can and will be successful – but it’s not going to happen overnight.
And the author had unrealistic expectations for last year’s team – hard to say there was a majority of fans who thought KU was going to a bowl.
by jayhawk1996 on May 21, 2011 3:07 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I was one of the fans that thought we would improve and go to a bowl
Though that wasn’t based on the non-reported number of players that left the team, and didn’t factor in all of the injuries, especially to the OL. I also was looking forward to Pick @ QB, and wondered about him not getting more of a chance – though admittedly didn’t see just how bad we were against NDSU.
That being said, this year is completely different IMO. The OL is healthy, we’ll be more experienced at QB (regardless of anyone’s opinion of quality), and we’ll be better at pretty much every position.
I was in the 6 to maybe 7 wins camp.
Quite a few people were but as you mention, we didn’t know how bad it the roster looked.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I was too
We had had two straight recruiting classes that were Mangino’s best ever and had a weaker schedule.
Still hard to pinpoint what went wrong last year in terms of who to blame: Talent? Coaching? I think it is a mix.
All I know is we better at least show progress this year. If not, Gill will have a make or break season in 2011. If we aren’t in a bowl by year three, he is gone. Not saying thats necessarily what I think should happen, more that is just the nature of the beast these days
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on May 21, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Meant make or break season in 2012
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on May 21, 2011 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions
Not so fast
I’m not sure we can afford to get rid of Gill until his contract has finished. Remember, every cent of that $10 million contract is guaranteed.
When Perkins hired Gill, he cemented the guy’s boots into Memorial Stadium.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
True but after 2012 it becomes only 4 million.
I know 4 million is a lot and my guess is he makes it through year 4.
It's not that I'm lazy; it's that I just don't care. (#739)
I have to think
that was because he knew he wouldn’t be around much longer, and didn’t want the new AD firing his coach after only 2 (or 3) bad seasons before potentiallyturning the corner. This was Lew’s signature hire. He had to figure his legacy was riding on the success of Coach Gill.
Contracts at that level are a dialogue
Part of Gill being hired was the fact that he had already developed a plan for the program that included virtually an entire coaching staff. To think that he pursued this program without knowing what he had on hand would seem naive. I’ve gotta believe that, in addition to his own research through other FB connections, Dr. Tom gave him plenty of up close evaluations of the state of KU FB from a Big 12 perspective. Coach Gill came here knowing that it would take a priority for the program to suceed would be to “recruit, recruit, recruit”, which I believe means he knew it would take at least 3 years of recruiting. Lew knew as much as well.
To think that Lew just gave away the contract is just not reality based. It was just another investment in the development of the FB program at KU. Not terribly different than laying out a chunk of change for a new practice field, lockerrom, playing field, stadium improvements, and yes, eventually a new stadium.
It’s all part of investing in developing a program, which is a lot more than one elite year, and a few (barely) winning seasons.
by dagger108 on May 21, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well
I agree with some of that. But please try to convince me that a 5 year guaranteed contract for $10 million makes sense.
I’ll give you a real work example. The company I work for just hired another 5 business intelligence consultants at the principle level. We’re paying them anywhere from $100K to $140K based on their experience (not potential). Now, if they kick ass out at Time Warner Cable, US Cellular, or any of our other big clients. We’ll promote them. They’ll become Senior Principles and make anywhere from $150K to $220K. The promotion is based on performance, not potential. That’s logical.
A $10 million, 5 year guaranteed contract is far from logical in my opinion, especially considering the glaring ommission of incentive clauses like a bonus for winning bowl games, winning the conference, winning a NC, etc.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
by Rivethead on May 22, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm guessing the company you work for isn't a tattered dysfunctional mess.
A better real work comparison might be Chrysler in the 80’s (?) when Iacocca took over. I’m not here to argue that the contract makes sense, because I too was surprised.
I’m just saying that negotiating a contract isn’t a one way street. The fact that Lew would be leaving soon has been proposed as a reason why he/Lew was giving away the farm, but missing the fact that Turner also realized that he/Lew wouldn’t be there to support him in the rebuilding (7 straight losses back to BCS). That’s a wild card for Turner to play, not something that Lew is just giving away.
I do think that Turner’s contract is based on experience, as well as potential. While a barely winning season is not what I aspire to, I do take into consideration that it was perrenial Bottom Ten team that he inherited, and he was getting recruits to go from TX to Buffalo, NY. Buffalo.
Don't you think he was probably ready to leave because of this?
Buffalo, NY. Buffalo.
He wanted out of Buffalo, it’s so bad that you repeated it for emphasis. I’m sure Lew had the idea of protecting Gill with the contract and that’s why it was guaranteed but I really question the need for it to be as big as it is. His best year was heavily influenced by a huge TO margin and he’d been passed over for other jobs already, he got paid like a Brad Stevens based on a VCU like run.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
And
his daughter was already at KU. Seems like we should have been able to get at least $100K/year off the sales price just for the added benefit of allowing him to see his own flesh and blood daily instead of just during the summer/holidays.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Yes,
Turner inherited a Bottom Ten team and took them to ranked in the 70s. Does that experience equate to taking a team ranked in the 60s and moving them to the top twenty?
I don’t think so, at least as far a negotiating a contract goes.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Mangino's last two classes were the best according to the services
but we all remember Anthony Webb, Nathan D’Cunha, Joques Crawford, Ryan Murphy, Brandon Duncan, Quinton Woods and from the looks of it, Prinze Kande. Mangino was a 4-star whiff machine. His best recruiting classes were actually in the early days with 2 and 3 star guys like Collins, Talib, Reesing, Briscoe, Holt, Rivera, Mortensen, Henry, Stuckey, etc. I don’t think it’s safe to say that because those last couple classes were more highly-rated, they actually had the most talent. He’d lost all his best recruiting assistants by that time, and I think he actually did a pretty poor job.
In hindsight, yes
I meant that going into last year, I expected us to be better because I expected those classes to pan out / be better. Now, obviously, they were overrated
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on May 22, 2011 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually don't remember Anthony Webb, Nathan D’Cunha, Joques Crawford, Ryan Murphy, Brandon Duncan, Quinton Woods.
At least not for anything good.
Except Murphy. I do recall him making some plays/INT’s, and at least being a positive part of the team.
Our OL ....
….. was so beat up last year Reesing would have had a rough year.
As PenHawk stated Mangino was a 4-star whiff machine. He also failed to sign enough OL and DTs the last few years. We are woefully thin at those positions b/c of it. The injuries to last years OL prove how important it is to have depth. We don’t have a whole lot of depth this year either. I wouldn’t count on the incoming freshmen to come in and add much this year.
We were also terribly thin at LB which was usually a position MM recruited well.
It looks like this staff knows how to recruit and add depth all around but time will tell if they can become a winning coaching staff.
There are several reports that a couple of the OL are potential players as true freshmen
though I do agree the OL & DL are places most likely to have redshirts.
One of the things that amazes me about this class is the number of walk-ons, and not just from KS kids who have grown up dreaming of putting on the crimson and blue. The walk-ons (and recruits) are from all over the country. It’s also not like we are an elite program that they will be able to join and experience all the positives of success. This program lost bad last year, and there is a good chance that this season will be a loser as well. Now that’s something I want to pay to be a part of – well maybe not. At least not at face value, which just shows how good this group is at recruiting. The victories and even better players will come.
Also good point that you brought up about staff turnover. It wasn’t just the mutiny by the players in ’09 that is an indictment. It was the ongoing mutiny on a regular basis by the assistants.
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