Comparing The Four Kansas Mid Major Upsets
If there is a list of posts I don't want to write, this is probably at the top of the list. Still, perhaps by taking a quick look through the four major upsets (Bucknell, Bradley, Northern Iowa, VCU) we have suffered, maybe we can find a common thread and find a better way to avoid it the next time.
First, I want to make the point that we are not cursed because of these upsets. But because we are so good in the regular season and a high seed almost every year, pretty much every loss in the NCAA tournament (and every loss period to be honest) is going to be an upset. Basically the way to avoid this is to win the national championship every year, which I wouldn't have a problem with.
Let's start with Bucknell. The 2005 team had a couple problems. First, it was a group of players recruited to play Roy Williams's system who had to play in Coach Self's offense. The team played at the 23rd fastest pace in Williams's final year, and were 163rd in 2005. Secondly, the team unfortunately had to put up with Keith Langford taking a ton of shots even though he wasn't very good, and the offense revolved entirely around Wayne Simien, although Aaron Miles had a good year as well.
Oddly enough, Bucknell won the game despite shooting 25% from three, and despite Kansas's 58% FT rate. Basically, the Jayhawks didn't shoot very well, and Bucknell did, but neither shot entirely that much better or worse than during the regular season. Given that Bucknell ended up getting an 8 seed the year after (as a Patriot League team!) perhaps they were a bit underseeded.
The Bradley game, for me, is the simplest one to explain. First off, Kansas was very young. Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers and Julian Wright all saw big minutes and were all Freshmen. Russell Robinson, a Sophomore, also saw big minutes. That that team was a 4 seed is a pretty good accomplishment in itself. It would have been nice for them to get to the next weekend and get that bit of tournament experience, but based on what they did the next two years they didn't need it.
But this game came down to three point shooting. Bradley, as a team, shot 33.6% from beyond the arc, or 222nd nationally. In that game they shot 52.4% from beyond the arc. Forget the youth, forget anything Patrick O'Bryant did. Kansas didn't play great, but they played well enough to win, sans that three point shooting effort. Also of note is that Bradley ended up 26th in KenPom, hardly accurate for a 13 seed, though Kansas was 6th as a 4 seed.
Next, Northern Iowa. The most perplexing one to me. Sure, some fluky stuff happened, like when Jordan Eglseder made more threes in the first half of that game (2) than he had made all season long up to that point (1). But mostly it was that Coach Self for whatever reason refused to speed up the game, and refused to press Northern Iowa. There also was the matter of Sherron Collins trying to play the hero and instead laying a gigantic egg, but mostly it was the whole lack of a press thing. In fact, Kansas almost won the game by pressing for around four minutes. Of all the upsets that naysayers use to point to Coach Self having a lack of coaching ability, this is one game that gets me to nod in agreement a bit. Again, I am not saying I would be a better basketball coach. I am sure if I were in charge of Kansas we would have zero national titles and maybe 2 of the 7 conference titles we have won in a row. But at the same time, I saw right away that we needed to be pressing, and that the coaching staff either missed it or was too stubborn to react to what an opponent was doing troubled me.
Lastly, VCU. I don't think I need to go into it too much given that it just happened on Sunday. And hey, three pointers were again key. So does that mean that to avoid upsets all we need to do is avoid fluky shooting? Is it all our fault or is it the universe conspiring against us? I think it's a little in the middle to be honest. On the one hand, avoiding shooting 5% from three is pretty key to avoiding the upset, as is avoiding a team shooting 50% from three when they shoot in the low 30s for the year. But when you have a huge edge inside against a team, how about we dump the ball inside. Or if a team is shooting well from three perhaps pressure the ball a bit more and not let them get clean looks. Our two point defense wasn't great this year, so on some level we needed the three point "defense" to be stout, but I'll take our front line's chances against a mid major anytime.
The good thing is that the second half adjustments in the VCU game obviously worked. We got it down to a 2 point game at one point. Now the key seems to be not taking a team lightly and falling into a hole in the first place. I don't know if it's his scouting or his halftime speeches, but Coach Self is one of the better second half coaches out there. If he can elevate his first half coaching, we'll really be in business.
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It'd be interesting to see a minute breakdown for each team (I don't care enough or I'd do it).
Last year against UNI, Cole sat a ton with foul trouble. This year, T-Rob was chained to the bench. I don’t remember the other 2 well enough to recall anything like that. Seems like the team struggles when the rotation gets thrown out of whack.
Or they just struggle when they shoot 9% from three.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Only ones to me that are worth discussing are the past two years
Bradley was a fluke game – the MVC wasn’t given respect yet, so they were horrendously underseeded (both they and Wichita State made Sweet 16). We were young, they were banking in shit threes, etc.
Bucknell… my first taste of tournament angst (my freshman year) BUT that team really just needed to be put out of its misery. It was the most overhyped KU team ever in terms of how good it actually was. Apart from Simien, we had ABSOLUTELY NO post players. We started Christian Moody for Christ sake. That team was also injured, Giddens was a dumpster fire that year, Langford was hurt and was being a little whiney *(&^( all year. Terrible season. God I hated that year.
Northern Iowa, like you said, was a lot of poor coaching. It was probably the worst game Self coached at KU. He made two critical errors: Not pressing the living hell out of UNI and relying too heavily on Sherron. When Sherron obviously was stinking it up, Self should have pulled him. Reed had shot like 5 of 8 from three or something like that the game before, yet I don’t remember him playing much…
This is the worst because that KU team likely coasts into the Final 4 after this one. They would have gotten Michigan State next, and those guys would have been our for blood after losing to them TWICE the year before (when is the last time before this KU had lost twice to anyone?)
I don’t know what to make of this year’s game. Seems like we just missed shots. Just… happened.
The Northern Iowa game is inexcusable though. Its the worst loss in the program’s history under Self (given the team, talent, situation, etc).
Everyone always wants to play the 1997 team as the “oh my God what a great team how did they not go further” type. Isn’t UNI just as bad?
1997 team – 15-1 in Big 12, top overall seed
2010 team – 15-1 in Big 12, top overall seed
1997 team – lost in Sweet 16 to Arizona team that had future NBA all-stars on it and eventually won the title that same tournament
2010 team – lost in second round to Northern Iowa and a guy named Ali Farpupjhglejhgjkhjjklkjsh
Both teams were title favorites and choked. But to me, given the circumstances, the UNI choke job was worse
Shit happens when you win championships
1997 vs 2010
The 2010 lose was a bigger upset. 97 gets more attention in the fact that was a better team then the 2010. Vaughn, LaFrentz, Pollard, and Pierce > Collins, Aldrich, Morri (as sophomores).
by hawkinwihita on Apr 1, 2011 5:54 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Question about scouting reports
I remember reading somewhere that there was a correlation between KU’s tournament losses and the scouting reports completed by specific assistant coaches. Is there any truth to that? Just curious.
I'd love to know
but I don’t know how or where to even try to get into that information. We do know that both losses the last two years were the second games of the weekend, so less than two days to scout and prepare. Shouldn’t matter with the talent and varying styles seen throughout the season but could be something.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
What about
our ability or inability to change defenses? As VCU and UNI did there were multiple changes—zone, man to man, full court press. My only complaint and this goes back to the Roy days as well. Why can’t we mix up defenses? Playing a zone does not make you less of a team or imply a weakness. We did it in ’08 with a 3-2 from time to time. Why not a 1-3-1 or something to slow the damn point guard down and make him and others think about where they need to be. And finally where was the 1-2-2 full court press that was displayed during the UMKC game???
Don't remember seeing it after I wrote the post discussing it.
Didn’t expect to see it much during conference play but it is disappointing that it completely disappeared.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
each game is the exact same formula
poor shooting, unlikely or at least very timely shooting from the other team, and refs that decide they want to be part of the story…plus, if our team gets down early (which doesn’t happen often, mind you) they seem to have trouble shaking it.
when we turned the ball over on 4 or 5 straight possessions against VCU, i knew we were in big trouble.
BOOM YOSTED!
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Apr 1, 2011 10:28 PM CDT reply actions
Keith Langford taking a ton of shots even though he wasn't very good
Seriously?? Langford was a damn good player if memory serves he even got a quick cup of coffee in NBA while he never stuck in NBA that does not mean he wasn’t a damn good college player for KU
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eh
51% eFG, 60% from the free throw line, decent enough as far as assists and turnovers go, didn’t rebound.
not an efficient scorer by any means
Only a 35% 3pt shooter. I think Langford just hit so many big shots (many of them layups or pull-ups near the basket) at important times that people remember him as being a better offensive player than he was.
looking back
holy crap that team was terrible. Them being a 3 seed might be Self’s best coaching job at KU
Yeah but who else on that team was going to score?
Simien was the go to scorer, but who else was there? Giddens was terrible that year, Miles wasn’t a scorer… Lee could hit some threes here and there but that was about it…
Shit happens when you win championships
beat me to it
Giddens scored 14.5 ppg with a 52% eFG that year (also had more than 1 steal and 1 block per game). He just chucked way too many threes only shot 34% behind the arc. But then, I’m the world’s only JR Giddens apologist.

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