The Curious Case Of Josh Selby
When Josh Selby stood on the court at Madison Square Garden and announced his decision to go to Kansas it was another year where Kansas fans rejoiced the signing of a top level "one and done" talent with the potential to push Kansas over the top.
A year earlier it was Xavier Henry joining Cole Aldrich and Sherron Collins on a surefire Final Four squad. The problem is, Henry was just a freshman. Henry was a very good freshman, but he was still a freshman. Henry averaged 13.4 points and 4.4 rebounds per game. Not too shabby, but by comparison it's just another freshman as far as Kansas basketball goes.
The problem seems to be that the expectation for players like Selby and Henry has gone through the roof, while their ability to get drafted has become that much easier. The NBA values potential and that ruins the opportunity for college basketball to see a sophomore, junior or senior level Xavier Henry and quite possibly Josh Selby. Everyone knows that, it's not news and it's just a part of the game.
Out of curiosity though, how would you guess Henry and Selby compare to other Jayhawks at their position who came in as freshman?
In Henry's situation we're talking about a shooting guard/wing type and while the comparison isn't perfect, Paul Pierce comes to mind. Pierce of course stayed TWO seasons with the Jayhawks before heading to Boston where he's had a possible Hall of Fame career. I say possible because I don't watch the NBA so I'm only going off of what I hear. During Paul Pierce's freshman year at Kansas he averaged 12 points, 6 rebounds per game and that was for a Kansas team that had more talent and a higher ceiling than last years Jayhawks. It was never a foregone conclusion that Pierce would depart and Pierce did in fact return for a two more full seasons where he averaged 20 and 7 as a junior.
What about Josh Selby, the curious case of Josh Selby. The expectation was that this freshman would come in and bedazzle us with his on court playmaking abilities and elevate the Kansas Jayhawks to a Harlem Globetrotter like circus act. Penetrate, pass and rain in long range bombs. I exaggerate, but Bill Self even called Selby the best player he'd ever recruited.
Following a nine game suspension and limited action since, he's done a solid job for a freshman even showing flashes of brilliance, but there are certainly areas that could be improved. Selby's current per game stats line up at 11.4 points, 2.9 assists per game.
Comparisons for Selby? How about Jacque Vaughn. The player that epitomized the college point guard by the time he left Kansas. Vaughn's freshman year he averaged 7.8 points and 5.2 assists per game. Even Aaron Miles, another Kansas point player with known offensive deficiencies managed 7.1 points and 6.8 assists per game as a freshman.
Now it's not an apples to apples comparison obviously with Roy Williams offense differing from Bill Self's and Josh Selby playing off the ball more than on, but I'd argue that both Vaughn and Miles were a bigger impact to Kansas as true freshman and both ended up being four year players.
Most Freshman don't do what Jacob Pullen did the other night against Kansas. Most Freshman don't do what Jimmer Fredette is doing out in Provo. Freshman don't pull a JJ Reddick, an Adam Morrison, name your senior in recent memory that's elevated the play of their team and John Wall might be one of the few freshman players that actually accomplished an equal feat by himself. The basketball world doesn't churn out John Wall's EVERY year, but the media sure likes to try and that's where players like Selby and Henry can't possibly live up to the hype.
You can find numbers to support any argument you want it seems, but in the case of Josh Selby I think Bill Self has played his cards right and college basketball is just a different game than it was 10-15 years ago. Selby is a player that likely benefits a great deal from another season at Kansas. He see's a full season on the court, feels more comfortable dictating his game and becomes better adept at handling the speed of the game from a ballhandling and defensive perspective. Some of that development is already apparent. But at the end of the day we might only see Selby in a Kansas uniform for one season and not even a full one at that.
It takes a mix of three and four year players with maybe a splash of flash to do what Bill Self has done at Kansas over his tenure. Josh Selby is a freshman. A freshman that has provided a noticeable lift to Kansas on multiple occasions, but he's also a freshman that makes you wish their were sophomore and junior seasons guaranteed. There are a multitude of factors that could lead to another year from Josh Selby so I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, but the lesson here when it comes to recruiting and one and done's might just be another important one when it comes to perspective.
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good catch...
the statistical website I went to missed his freshman year so it only had him as a 2 year player.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
seems odd
and unfair to compare Selby to true point guards.
yeah it was tricky determining who to compare him to...
I’ll add Chalmers who averaged 11.5 points 3.8 assists.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
i'll add hinrich
5.5 ppg 3.6 apg 42.9 fg% 31% 3pt% in 21 minutes
I’ll grant Selby was more highly touted, but I really think we spoil ourselves and expect too much from freshmen regardless of hype.
by kcgregory on Feb 17, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Selby should be playing on the ball, not off.
I was reading comments earlier (on here? at OBK? maybe the KUSports.com comment section) that HCBS should move away from combo guards and more of a point-guard/shooting guard offense. But it appears that is already happening. Selby seems to take on most of the time the off-guard/shooting guard roll while Taylor is almost exclusively the on-ball guard.
I think that Selby’s biggest problem is that Self hasn’t allowed him to create and have the ball enough to do more. Certainly, he would make mistakes and play recklessly, but I like the idea of this lineup:
Selby
Reed
Releford/Little
McMorris
MkMorris
Questions for this lineup:
Can Selby guard the opponent’s best guard?
Can Releford/Little hang defend a prototypical NBA small forward?
We've kicked this idea around here before
Problem is we don’t think Selby can handle the point. Really his only consistent strength this year has been hitting outside shots.
When Taylor plays well, he belongs at the point. Problem is, thats the biggest IF ever
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know if he can handle point or not...
but I’d like to find out. I’m pretty convinced that he can’t handle it in big moments, if we never give him the chance during small ones. There’s nothing better than getting reps at the college level to make him feel comfortable. You know how by march every year, everyone says, “they’re not freshmen anymore, they’ve been here a year, they’re sophomores, etc…” Unfortunately, that doesn’t apply to our freshman.
The most I’ve questioned Self all year was not playing Selby during crunch time at Colorado. Maybe he would have made a mistake that cost us…which would have sucked…but if we don’t trust him in February against Colorado, just when are we going to trust him?
by hiphopopotamus on Feb 17, 2011 8:09 AM CST up reply actions
Good point
But we did trust him in his very first game as a Jayhawk. And yes, that worked out. Not sure what he’s done do to take that away but you’re right in that he definitely hasn’t had a chance in crunch time of league play. Sooner or later there needs to be a baptism by fire.
www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com
Took the dip after his first couple of games and right when he was recovering, injured.
117.5
127.8
52.4
142.5
176.9
62.1
90.6
37.1
131.0
43.1
158.6
110.7
147.9
Off Ratings by game before his injury.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
To me
The phrase “one and done” doesn’t carry a high level of expectation when it comes to on-court performance. Sure, every now and then you see a Wall, Beasley, or Durant. But for each of those it seems like there are 3 or 4 DeAndre Jordans, Xavier Henrys, Lance Stephensons, Avery Bradleys and Eric Bledsoes. Guys who know they’re NBA-bound after one year regardless of their performance, and make only a moderate impact during their one-year tenures.
The modern landscape of both college athletics and the country as a whole says this isn’t going to change any time soon. These kids want money and recognition, and they want it ASAP. The NBA is willing to give it to them based on estimated ceiling over actual performance at the college level. With the exception of those occasional superstars like Durant, I think we just need to accept that one-and-done doesn’t mean what we want it to mean. It means “exceptionally good high school basketball player.” Any value beyond that is speculative, and leads to a lot of let-down fans.
by PenguinHawk on Feb 16, 2011 12:28 PM CST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
So get rid of the one-year rule
And let guys like Selby, X and Durant go straight to the NBA. Other than Carmelo, who has led a team to NCAA tournament glory?
That rule is an NBA rule.
The NCAA and college coaches can’t do much about it. Getting rid of it is entirely up to the NBA.
Marty
rec'd sir
and this is why in my view we should shy away from these guys.
first, we get all of the growing pains and not really any of the benefits of experience, and second;
you have to replace them every year instead of every 3-4 years.
he seems like a nice-enough kid, and i would like it if he stayed for another year, but he won’t because he’s not getting paid based on his college stats…he’s getting paid for his potential.
ideally, we would get a bunch of guys like the morri, chalmers, t-rob-guys that are talented but need to be coached up.
BOOM YOSTED!
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Feb 16, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
He should stay another year.
The USC game really showed his true potential. He’s kind of leveled off since then. Just needs experience.
I eat nails for breakfast, tacks for snacks, and I sh*t nickel.
I think Miles gets overlooked in KU's history of great guards
It’s easy to forget how good Miles was since his class was so strong as a whole. But those are sick numbers for a true point as a freshman. His scoring numbers won’t blow you away, but he wasn’t on the floor to score. I’d like to know the list of guards who average damn near 7 assists a game as a true freshman.
Aaron Miles is my favorite KU player of all time.
Just thought I would (sort of) back up your statement with my opinion.
Mine too
which is why he is in that picture to the right of this sentence. That 2002/2003 teams were my favorite of all time too. Aaron, Kieth, Wayne, Nick, and Hinrich are all probably in my top ten favorite Jayhawks ever. It was the first Jayhawk team I ever really followed so there are a lot of good memories
Good write up Denver
So we all WANT him to stay (we’ll need guards next year losing Reed and Morningstar)
Question is… will he?
Shit happens when you win championships
I'd say the chances are better now...
than they were before December 19th : )
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Agreed w/ Owen.
Better now but I still think they’re slim.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
My opinion...
If he wants a legit shot at an NBA career and make more then just the quick money, he needs to stay. He’s not ready for the NBA yet and they wont give him as much time to develop like a college will. Selby is good but not great. To make it in the NBA, you have to be great. It would be hard for anyone to turn down the quick money. Honestly, at the end of the season well see what Josh wants, quick money or a career. As I say this, if he does leave after this year, I hope he proves me wrong.
by hawkinwihita on Feb 16, 2011 5:07 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree
A lot of times guys come back a year and cement their draft status as a top 5 pick. Not only would he be a year better, but next year KU loses Reed and Morningstar. Self has no choice but to play Josh heavily all year next to Tyshawn/Elijah.
Just think if somehow Selby and the Morri return…
Taylor
Selby
Releford
Morris
Morris
and don’t forget TRob and even Withey a year older…
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Feb 16, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
that would be sick...
I hope it happens but I don’t see all 3 staying.
by hawkinwihita on Feb 16, 2011 8:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
How do you figure he won't get the time to develop in the NBA?
If he’s a first round pick, you better believe they spend a lot of resources to try to develop the player, an investment for their team. Not to mention they can practice all year and aren’t spending time going to classes and such. I just don’t understand why people say this. Yes, his playing time during games might lack. But I’m sure there is a ton of competitive basketball being played in their practices.
i want him to stay too. I just disagree with the argument. I think it’s probably in his best interest to go, unless his draft stock, which determines the money, has fallen.
by play4'ships on Feb 16, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions
Your agrument isn't looking at the big picture...
Pros give lil time to develop. It’s a business and all about money. If he isn’t contributing to an NBA level, he gets cut.
The big picture I was talking about is age. Developing takes time. Stayin in college to add to that development allows for extra years of development before even worrying about the NBA cutting you. A player that’s 22-23 majority of the time is a lot more ready for the NBA then someone 19-20.
by hawkinwihita on Feb 17, 2011 6:09 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't disagree
That staying in school an extra year would make him more NBA-ready, but NBA teams are not as cut-happy as you make them seem. As evidence, look no further than KU’s own Julian Wright. He’s in his fourth disappointing year in the League now. He plays for the Raptors, one of the league’s worst teams, and is averaging 3.8 ppg and 2.5 rpg, which are almost identical to his rookie numbers. Yet he still has lucrative employment because he’s quick, long, and can jump out of the gym. If NBA teams see something in a kid, they’ll give him quite a bit of time to progress.
by PenguinHawk on Feb 17, 2011 7:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
If he's a first round pick, he's gone
You can’t say no to guaranteed millions, no matter how great your career ends up being.
I really think we have a good chance
One of the biggest influences in his life has publicly said she’d like him to stay (his mom) and there certainly won’t be the pressure Xavier felt from his dad. In my opinion his draft status or potential lockout will have little to do with his decision.
it's possible
As I recall, Brandon Rush and Julian Wright we’re both considered “one and dones” when they committed to KU. Rush stayed for 3 years (though the last one was due to an untimely injury), and Wright for 2.
Another good one...
10.9 and 3.7. Of course he is obviously a little bit pale and from a North/South? Dakota and not Baltimore so that pretty much rules him out of the NBA draft talk.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
by Owen on Feb 16, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Freshmen Impact
Most Freshman don’t do what Jacob Pullen did the other night against Kansas
Going back the other game K-state won in Bramlage, KU (soon to be NC, KU) went into that game prepared to defend against Freshman forward Michael Beasley and redshirt Freshman Bill Walker, who scored 26 and 22 points – good production, but not enough to carry the team over the balanced scoring of KU’s multi-threat group of eight who had four in double figures.
That night, something happened KU had not prepared for – Freshman guard Jacob Pullen was the deciding factor, pouring in 20 points when double teams were used against the perceived threats. He wasn’t playing point, but several of his feeds were returns or second passes from the two bigs being targeted so heavily.
This time, little Jake did most of the damage all by himself. But then, we expect more from Seniors than from Freshmen . . . don’t we?
RRROOOOCK CHAAAALLLK! JAAAAYYYHAAAAWWWK! KAAAAYYY UUuuuUU!
I found an interesting comparison
Selby’s numbers are (once again): 11.4ppg, 2.9 apg, 42% 3pt, 1.3 spg.
Here’s a one-and-done guard from last year’s stat line: 12.3ppg, 2.5apg, 22% 3pt, .9 spg.
The second player? Lance Stephenson from Cincinnati. He was drafted #40, and now makes $750,000 per season. Except for 1 less point per game, Selby is overall having a better year than Stephenson did and is without the personal problems Stephenson had. He’d likely be a first round pick, making over $1 mil. If the NBA is his number one priority right now (don’t know whether it is or not), I believe he’s gone.
true, however
stephenson is 6-5, so much better height for a guard than selby…also the stats really aren’t that much different in totality…stephenson was a 2nd round pick so nothing guaranteed, and while $750,000 is certainly a lot of money, wouldn’t it make more sense to be a 1st rounder and get multi-millions guaranteed? stephenson isn’t even playing, so not sure how long he’s going to be pulling in that money anyway.
the bottom line is that if josh wants to pursue professional basketball for a living, that’s his right to do so whether it be now or a year from now, two years from now….we want him to stay because selfishly it would help our team…he’s got to do what’s best for him.
i do think there’s a case to be made for staying in college and improving your draft stock, and the threat of a lockout could make the decision much easier for him to stay.
BOOM YOSTED!
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Feb 17, 2011 3:00 AM CST up reply actions
I think that's right.
If the draft were tomorrow, Selby might be a 1st round pick. Is that good enough? Only he can decide. But if my opinion mattered, I would want him to be a certain 1st round pick before declaring.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 17, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
I'd like to see you guys retain Selby
I think the next few years of Selby vs. Phil Pressey could be fun if you manage to keep him on the squad.
I’m a Mizzou fan, so I hope the tigers win, but good point guard play is fun to watch.
Is it me or Selby's hand/wrist still injured
Everything that I read and every youtube/all star game I saw of Selby pointed to him being very good at getting to the hoop and finishing tough shots. I watch every jayhawk game… and it seems like from the start, he has limited interest in even attempting to go to the hoop and when he does, he struggles to finish. I’m actually a bit surprised that he shoots the three as well as he has. He seems to dribble the ball funky, often fumbling it around. I wonder if he came back from whatever that injury was before the season (hand wrist) too early. With that being said, they need his ability to get to the hoop to win the ship… if the k-state game is any evidence, when the twins get held in check, the jayhawks don’t get as many easy shots (off of doubles down low). If i’m Bill Self, I start running the offense through Selby now via pick and rolls w/ the Twins and instruct Selby to get to the hoop as much as physically possible. We know what the twins are going to get us when we run the high low offense through them, but with the correct personnel (Texas ), the high low can be nuetralized. If Selby get’s confidence going to the hoop, not only can he score and live at the line, but it would only open up more opportunities for the Twins to step out or roll to the hoop. Jayhawks can live with an L or Two down the stretch, as long as they get a 1 or 2 seed and Selby gets going

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