My Final Thoughts on the Kansas-Missouri Rivalry
by Andrew Clark on Nov 23, 2011 8:36 AM CST
in Kansas Jayhawk Football 2011
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Thanksgiving is approaching; I got stuff to do and a new puppy at home. The thing is trying to eat everything in sight, has to be let out constantly, fed, played with and trained. I don't have time to do a post on Rock Chalk Talk, even during hate week. Sorry.
Yeah right. You think I'd let Missouri leave without offering some thoughts, nostalgia and cheap shots? Please.
I really didn't have much against MU until I got to Kansas. I thought I was going to Wisconsin up until spring time of my senior year in high school and had only lived in the KC area for a few years. I knew of the rivalry and rooted for KU after they became a college option, but it wasn't anything extreme. Even my freshman year, nothing major. Beating the Tigers in football and keeping them out of a bowl was pretty sweet. Teams split in basketball. Oh well.
It wasn't until I went to a KU baseball game in the spring of my freshman year, of all things, that I started to appreciate Missouri, looked at them as a fierce rival. It all started with a group of over-the-top, hick-as-hell, white trash, toothless, didn't-even-go-to-the-college redneck yahoos who came to Lawrence for the KU-MU game. It was then that I saw the light. Missouri was evil. Missouri was the enemy.
This group just heckled the living daylights out of the KU players, our fans, even the video crew. I mean just terrible stuff. Shouting gay and racial slurs, never ceasing to stop yelling and chanting things that were just incredibly over the top. At a freaking college baseball game, with children in the stands and Kansas leading by at least 5 runs the whole game. I was blown away. An elderly man leaned over to me during the game and simply muttered "they hate us more than they love themselves."
They hate us more than they love themselves...
So I went home and blew off some much-needed studying for finals and looked into the past. I learned about the antlers. The people who made fun of Nick Collison's grandpa who was a WWII veteran. A group of morons who have nothing better to do with their lives than just hate a school. I mean these people were devoting hours of their time to learn facts about KU, find player and coaches' phone numbers, call and text, etc. Kansas absolutely OWNS Missouri in basketball lately. Don't all the wins in Lawrence and Columbia shut them up?
They hate us more than they love themselves...
The more Missouri fans I met, the more I couldn't stand the school. I couldn't even strike up some faux respect for the school's athletic accomplishments. I mean, these people just hated on KU when their own team was terrible. Missouri fans gobbled up Bucknell shirts to celebrate ANOTHER TEAM LOSING. Their own team wasn't even in the tournament. How absolutely pathetic is that? You ever met a Nebraska fan? They are unreal. Guess what, they actually have some national titles. Missouri has an arena named after a girl who paid someone to take all her classes for her in college and some large pillars on its campus. Kudos.
After developing my sweet hatred for our rival, it made experiencing college even more fun. KU went on an athletic tear. Getting into the Orange Bowl over Missouri was priceless. Even more priceless was getting to rub it in their fans' faces. After that... no biggie. Just another sweep of MU and a national title in basketball. A championship... mmmmm. Next season, Kansas pulled off a miracle and beat Missouri in the border war in football. Winning is awesome, beating MU is something else. Waxing Iowa State or Texas Tech in basketball is fun, no doubt, but beating Missouri would cause a day of celebratory drinking and bad decisions. It meant more. I despised that school, and watching my team beat theirs, watching their fans suffer... just amazing.
With Missouri leaving to the SEC, I'm losing that passion. I've tried to save face, play it cool, act like it isn't a big deal. Hell, we're getting West Virginia and TCU! So long Missouri! I was lying. I'm going to miss the rivalry. I'm going to miss the feeling of beating Missouri. I'm going to miss the pain of Missouri beating us. In the end, a rival is what brings out the best and worst of you as a fan. No one played the role of the villain in my life quite like Missouri did, and no one ever will again. They truly were the bad guys, and they made ordinary games seem bigger and more important.
I'll miss you Missouri, and this Saturday, I'm pouring one out for the death of a fantastic rivalry.
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Thanks buddy
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 23, 2011 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
This needs to be picked up by SB Kansas City
outstanding work!
If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
And this is why you are in the hall of fame. good post man
Yeah right. You think I’d let Missouri leave without offering some thoughts, nostalgia and cheap shots? Please.
Ready for sad...
Tait just tweeted that they announced only 35k tickets have been sold for this one. Sounds like neither side was all that interested in showing up to this one. Farmageddon is likely going to be the bigger draw at Arrowhead this year. Is that thing still at Arrowhead?
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Not surprised.
Neither team looks great. Realignment debacle. Tickets aren’t cheap, though you can get them cheap now. Our team is terrible. Missouri’s going to a random pizza bowl. Outside of “Last Border War”, what is interesting about this game? And as I mentioned, I think “Last Border War” could easily be hurting sells.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've wondered if the "Last"
part of it might be hurting ticket sales as well. I mean these two teams hate losing to eachother so much that I could see both sides avoiding it in order to not have to face the music. Obviously the odds are tremendously in Mizzou’s favor, but we’ve had a couple Mizzou fans come on here this week stating that we could still win. I think they are a bit crazy, but I guess if you think there is a chance you would hate to be sitting in that stadium and lose on the final final final.
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Sort of like when we closed the pre-Paige Arena?
Wasn’t there, but next to ’88 & ’08 it is among my favorite KU moments.
If true...
…that’s sad. I’m not surprised we haven’t sold many tickets, but you would think the Misery fans would have wanted to show up. shrugs
Maybe backlash from their fans about the move away from the midwest.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Less than 10K KU fans expected for Saturday
That is pretty embarrassing for the last Border War game.
Agreed, but....
It’s also the only voice we have to show our displeasure in the team and hopefully enact some change, IE, get rid of Gill.
you can see this exact attitude today at Rock M Nation
A couple dozen posts celebrating the Jayhawks losing to Duke.
Except for the Tyus Edney game, I couldn’t tell you a single team that MU has lost to in post season in any sport. I get the impression that most MU fans could tell me every team that has knocked Kansas out of the tournament or beaten Kansas in a bowl in the last 20 years. I don’t know what motivates that attitude but it seems like a pretty crappy way to live life as a fan. Maybe them leaving the rivalry behind will be good for their fans so they can finally focus on cheering for MU (they only drew 10,000 to their game in KC against top-25 team Cal on Tuesday) instead of rooting against Kansas.
Come on now.
A couple dozen “posts”? Try a couple dozen “comments” in a “live thread” taking place on an evening in which Missouri didn’t have a game. Not quite the same thing.
Follow me at @SBN_BillC!
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by Bill C. on Nov 24, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
No reason to let a semantic debate obscure the point
Bill, you’ve done a great job with RMN, but I can’t agree with you here. It’s a distinction without a difference.
I guess on RMN, they’re solely called comments. On Royals Reviews and other SBN sites, they’re called posts or comments interchangeably (probably because you have to click a button that says “POST” in order to get your words to appear). I don’t think it’s a distinction worth drawing because the point remains the same: MU fans posting about KU losing to Duke as though that’s some sort of victory for MU. I don’t think there were any such comments/posts here after MU lost to Arizona State the first week of the season.
No, it’s not a victory for MU. A victory for all that is just and right in the world, though, and isn’t that worth of at least a smile and a cheery acknowledgement.
Don’t get me wrong. MU winning is like cake, but kU losing is like icing.
Man, how are we letting this thing die? (rhetorical question, not looking to rehash the debate).
by Wan Ihite on Nov 25, 2011 7:17 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
And the prosecution rests its case, Your Honor.
.
"So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."
Regardless of what they are called...
…it was a live thread that was atop the site while the Kansas game was going on. It is to be expected that some of the commenters were probably watching the game, and that they were probably rooting against Kansas. That is not unique to Missouri fans.
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by Bill C. on Nov 25, 2011 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
For whatever reason, those comments appeared on RMN after the Duke game and not here after the ASU game
Every fanbase has every type of fans, but there seems to be more celebrating another team’s losses with MU fans than you see in other fanbases.
A poll for KU fans
I just saw that my post caused another 11 comments on the RMN daily links. Guess I struck a nerve!
I certainly root against MU and hope they lose, but it makes very little difference in my overall happiness (even fleetingly). What I really think is odd is the continuing praise for Bucknell, VCU, Northern Iowa, etc among MU fans. I can’t name a single team that knocked MU out of the tournament (Tyus Edney aside), but I went to check the history and was actually a bit embarrassed to discover that it was Cincinnati last year — embarrassed because I was at the game. So I’ll throw it out to the rest of the KU fans: can anyone on here name any team that has ended MU’s season?
I know a few
Remember, when a team doesn’t make the tournament that often, easier to remember.
Cincy, Memphis, West Virginia…. and well I think thats it for a while. Going back to the Snyder days, there was Oklahoma… and thats all I got
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 26, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
memphis didn't unless it was a long time ago. we beat memphis and lost to uconn
can't we just pave over kansas?
We'll miss you too
To the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee!
P.S. Go Duke!
Proud Meth Aggie since 2011.
by Mac6uffin on Nov 25, 2011 7:24 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Somehow I don't really feel like this will be the end.
I’m thinking like 5 years or so without the rivalry. Being from KC, alumni from both sides will demand the game. It just means too much for the area. There are plenty of examples of rivalries played out of conference that mean more than any in-conference rivalries (Florida-Florida State, Xavier-Cincy, Texas-Oklahoma before the Big 12). And let’s be honest – this was NEVER a conference rivalry to begin with. I can name only a handful of times when the game was played in basketball or football for more than bragging rights. It’s about history, it’s about passion, it’s about using the most extreme examples of idiot fans on both sides to fuel your hatred toward the other school. This rivalry is bigger than Bill Self and whoever Kansas’s current athletic director is. It’s the second oldest rivalry west of the Mississippi.
Neither school will be the same without the Border War. That’s why Saturday won’t be the end.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
by T3T on Nov 25, 2011 10:56 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
I think its funny how Kansas's current AD feels so strongly about this...
When Zenger was at Illinois State until this last year. Just because this is how the current athletic administration feels at Kansas doesn’t mean that Missouri and Kansas will never play again. Just give it a few years.
by CapnCribbs on Nov 25, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Well he is a Kansan.
I would think he’s fully aware of the importance (?) of this rivalry. Of course, he isn’t the one abandoning it for a few extra dollars.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Nov 25, 2011 5:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, if the reason why Kansas won't play Missouri in basketball is because they can get more money
from a neutral site against a low-tier opponent (as KSinDC has stated many times on RMN), then YES, he is abandoning it for a few extra dollars.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
by Andy--01 on Nov 25, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, not playing in hoops hurts you more than us.
We’re gonna be on ESPN regardless. You’re non-con games aren’t. It’s not a money maker either way on the Jayhawk end.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Nov 25, 2011 8:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Plus, if the games at a neutral site that hurts us
And throw in that KU sells out every home game regardless. Missouri sells out games against Kansas and not much else. Isn’t just the TV aspect.
Shit happens when you win championships
by Andrew Clark on Nov 26, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
Being in advertising...
…I can tell you that you may be on ESPN, but ESPN would rather you play Mizzou. It’s all about RATINGS, ratings equal dollar signs. People across the country would rather watch kU play Mizzou than Furman. And what have we learned through all of this?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
When people start passing the plate to help ESPN, we can worry about their needs
What matters to the school is the gate, so, unless you think ESPN is going to put together a Champions Classic type event for KU-MU, what’s best for ESPN doesn’t really matter.
You know, I agree. Missouri is probably a better draw than Furman.
But better than a ton of other schools we can schedule.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Nov 27, 2011 7:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a misrepresentation followed by a factual error.
MU is essentially cancelling a home and home series by leaving the conference in pursuit of more money. To set up an annual game or a home and home series costs KU money (because we sell out every game). MU is putting the rivalry at risk in pursuit of more money and then asking KU to sacrifice money to keep the rivalry going. It’s pretty spectacular to claim that this is somehow KU’s fault (which I think is why nobody outside of Missouri sees it that way).
There is no scenario under which KU can make more money from MU leaving or the rivalry ending. To say that KU is abandoning it for a few extra dollars is just false.
I do think MU’s pathetic attendance at the Sprint Center this week makes it clear that MU would actually make extra money by playing a basketball game in KC, so that the game would actually act as a subsidy from KU to MU.
What about football?
Does kU not care about Kansas City?
Or they’d just rather have the money.
Proud Meth Aggie since 2011.
by Mac6uffin on Nov 26, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Andy-01 specifically referenced basketball
And he misrepresented my statements with regard to basketball.
If our next coach rebuilds the program, I’d be fine with continuing the football game, although it’d probably be better to make it a home-and-home since I think interest in MU in KC will dwindle pretty quickly once MU leaves the Big 12.
Yeah interest in Missouri football is the problem
not interest in another football program…
And KC interest in either team is irrelevant.
Proud Meth Aggie since 2011.
I don't know why KC interest could possibly be irrelevant to a game in KC
On RMN yesterday that people were complaining that the KC game is too far a drive for the St Louis alums.
I don't have any idea what this means
There are two reasons holding it on campus would draw better:
1) Artificial scarcity caused by holding the game in a given locattion only every other year instead of every year creates pent-up demand.
2) Locating the games closer to the geographic middle of the respective fan bases puts more fans within any given distance of the game
How do you figure that?
Are all the Mizzou fans just going to move away?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
Local coverage will dwindle once MU is no longer part of the local conference
And the bandwagon fans that result from positive local coverage won’t exist.
Totally untrue.
Remember, it’s Kansas City, MO. I’d be willing to put a large sum of money on that.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
I guess we’ll just have to see. I have a couple reasons to think the way I do
1) UMKC doesn’t get much coverage
2) Compare the coverage that Kansas State and Missouri State get.
I know MU says that they’re going to play here every year to keep their profile high, but I don’t expect that to last long considering how poorly they’re drawing here. They drew 12,000 last year for a matchup of top-25 teams at the Sprint Center. They drew 10,000 this year for a matchup of top-25 teams (that number included tickets sold to other schools in the tournament who weren’t playing in the game). There’s no point in playing the game if the fans aren’t going to come.
Did you really just compare Mizzou to UMKC and Missouri State?
I don’t really know what to…PFHAHAHAHAHA!
Wow, man. Just wow.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
Sure thing.
But I’ll give you a break because you obviously haven’t lived in KC for any extended period of time.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
You're off to a bad start
unless 22 years isn’t an extended period of time.
Here’s a testable prediction:
The ratio of mentions of KU+KSU to mentions of MU in articles appearing in the KC Star will be 25% higher in 2015-7 than in the average of 2009-2011. It ought to be confirmable using a relatively quick Lexis search.
Um.
They already are. Considering there are TWO beat writers dedicated to KU+KSU, both those teams combined have 33% more coverage than Mizzou does.
Mizzou’s beat writer (DeArmond) isn’t going away. And Mizzou coverage isn’t going away. The Illini still get plenty of coverage in a different conference in StL. And StL is a Mizzou town. KU might have an edge in KC but Mizzou isn’t going anywhere. Deal with it.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
Either you didn't read carefully or you have a time machine
The ratio will increase by 25% from now to 5 years from now. I’m willing to bet on it.
We'll see.
But I think they’d be digging for stories, because what kind of coverage do you think the KC Star is brushing over right now? Are they going to hire more KU beat writers?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
by T3T on Dec 1, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
I think Kerkhoff's coverage of MU will drop significantly
And I think DeArmond will become more of an SEC beat reporter instead of just MU.
I do think that the Star will beef up Big 12 coverage a bit in an attempt to try to keep the post-season tournaments.
yes, we go to the sec and get more money. but, we also get STABILITY.
no texas anymore!
can't we just pave over kansas?
Never a conference rivalry?
Almost every one of the last seven years, either the final basketball or football game of the season has been played with a chance at a conference / division (football) title on the line.
I can name 2 (’07 and ’10). Which ones am I missing?
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
The Mizzou-kU game was close.
But Mizzou had already clinched the North. Mizzou wasn’t competing for ANYTHING in ’05-06 basketball.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight; it's the size of the fight in the dog.
- Mark Twain
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