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Rock Chalk Talk Roundtable 9.29.10

via cdn3.sbnation.com

Just three of us for the roundtable this week.  I was on the road for work at a pair of conferences so Warden took the lead and has five solid questions that should bring about some differing opinions.

Today's Topics:

1.  With non-conference play wrapped up, what has been the biggest surprise of the season?  


2.  What do the Jayhawks have to do in order to be competitive in Big 12 games?


3.  What Big 12 opponent are you looking forward to playing? 

4.  Texas lost, Oklahoma has flirted with losing the last two weeks, and Nebraska struggled a bit over the weekend.  Is the Big 12 down? 

5.  If I counted correctly, we've got 16 days until Late Night.  Who is your starting five for the basketball team?

Give us your take or just critic ours and if you'd be interested in participating as a guest in the future, send me an email.  denverjhawk@hotmail.com

Star-divide

1.  With non-conference play wrapped up, what has been the biggest surprise of the season? 

Owen

Biggest surprise to me has been the role reversal of our team. The talent on the offense hasn't been where we thought it could be and defensively I'd dare to say that we might be better than expected.  That's a surprise.  Unfortunately our defensive improvement isn't able to overcome our offensive shortcomings at this point, but I'm optimistic that we're starting to understand what we have and moving in the right direction.

Fetch

First of all, I am offended Warden didn't know my e-mail address. With that out of the way, I totally agree that it is the defense. I don't think we are the deepest there, but the improvement is great to see. I think the improvement that Webb has had week to week is nice as well, as is James Sims appearing to be a quick study.

Warden

Sorry Fetch...Anyway, for me it has to be the quick changes in the backfield to Webb and Sims.  Seems like Gill and the other coaches knew who the better players were in the first week but were hesitant to come in and make that call right away.  Maybe they figured the position changes they announced at the start of the season were enough and other moves would look like panic moves or they just wanted to give the older guys a chance to prove themselves.

 

2.  What do the Jayhawks have to do in order to be competitive in Big 12 games?


Owen

Special teams has a long way to go and has to become a strength.  Our offense isn't good enough to play out of a hole everytime and no defense in the Big 12 can compete for four quarters while giving the other team a short field.  Kick coverage has to get better, the return game has shown some spark lately, but if both can come together at the same time maybe this team can start winning the field position battle or at least balancing it out and giving the team a chance to be competitive.

Fetch

For me it's running the ball well. That way we can take some pressure off Webb and keep the line from having to pass block a lot, but it also gives our defense a lot of much needed rest. Special teams is huge as well. No more punt blocks please.

Warden

Agree with Fetch on running the ball effectively.  Eat some clock, give the defense a rest, and move the ball towards mid-field on every possession.  As Owen mentioned, the specials teams has looked rough.  If we're punting from deep in our own territory often, this team is going to give up points.


3.  What Big 12 opponent are you looking forward to playing?  

Owen

Kansas State.  It's a big game on a Thursday night in front of a National audience.  Kansas State is beginning to get quite a bit of respect across the country and they deserve it so far.  The game in Lawrence provides Coach Gill an opportunity to build up some good will with the fanbase, his team and some momentum on the season and in recruiting. It's a big game.

Fetch

I'm saying Nebraska. I understand that Missouri are our biggest rivals, and the K State game will be huge, but the opportunity to kick them out of the Big 12 with a loss would be huge.

Warden

Got to go with the Wildcats.  For the same reasons mentioned above.  The top two games every year are Missouri and K-State and this year is no different.  K-State has found a bit of life with Snyder back and it would be great to take that life back down a notch.  The game is a winnable one but Kansas is going to have to have its stuff together to pull off the win.


4.  Texas lost, Oklahoma has flirted with losing the last two weeks, and Nebraska struggled a bit over the weekend.  Is the Big 12 down?  

Owen

Yes, absolutely.  The league lost a lot and is very young in a lot of critical areas.  It's similar to the ‘07 season when Kansas went on their Orange Bowl run, unfortunately Kansas just didn't do the things necessary to position themselves to make a similar run.

Warden

Big 12 is down.  I'm still not sold on Nebraska as a Top 5 team and the two big south schools haven't looked all that impressive.  I wonder if this will be the year where the South sees a non-UT/OU team in the championship game.  I won't be surprised if TCU and Boise State are the only undefeated teams at the end of the season.  Hopefully that's the case, will make for interesting BCS discussion in December.


5.  If I counted correctly, we've got 16 days until Late Night.  Who is your starting five for the basketball team?

Owen

I'm going to make the assumption that Josh Selby is going to be eligible and say Selby, Taylor, Morningstar, McMorris and Markieff Morris.  As the season goes I think EJ could move in to Morningstars spot with his added length but Self is big on trust and I think Morningstar wins out early.

Fetch

I'll stay the same. Depending on the versatility of Markieff I think we might see Robinson starting because he's more dissimilar to Marcus than Kieff is, but I think that will take some time. I will say this though: I'm not in the habit of second guessing one of the best coaches out there, and last year there was an excuse (Cole), but this year if we don't run teams out of the gym regularly I don't think I'll be able to forgive HCBS.

Warden

Same as Owen.  It should be interesting to see the rotation this year, especially if Selby is eligible.  The bigs have four guys that can play minutes without getting schooled and the guard position will be loaded with guys with different skill sets.  Reed has to get minutes based solely on his shooting ability.  I've been a big Taylor supporter throughout the last year and have high hopes for him this year but if he lays an egg early, move to an EJ/Selby combination on the point.  

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My answers

1. How much of an immediate impact the freshman have had on this team. Specifically James Sims at RB, Jordan Webb at QB, and Keeston Terry at S.

2. Recruit better players with more speed on defense. And bigger, more athletic linemen on offense. I think we’re just fine with the talent we have at the skill positions.

3. Texas. If you want to be the best, you have to play the best. And Texas has more conference championships than anyone else lately.

4. It depends on what you mean by “down”. I still think the Big 12 is one of the most talent-laden conferences in the country. But we seem to be going through a phase where the conference is going through adjustments to both offense and defensive schemes. The Big 12 was all the rage when Reesing, McCoy, Bradford, any number of TT QBs and that dufus at MU were throwing for a gazillion yards all in the same season. But teams have figured out how to slow the spread and I think our conference is now responding to that. It’s a continual ebb and flow. Plus as an overall conference we seem to be really YOUNG.

5. Honestly, I don’t really care.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 29, 2010 3:30 PM CDT reply actions  

but we don't play Texas this year...

next year though.

Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Follow me on Twitter, Owen_Kemp

by Owen on Sep 29, 2010 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I didn't realize the questions were relating to this season only.

I must have missed the memo.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 29, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh wait...

you must be referring to playing them in the Big 12 title game. I’m surprised at your confidence. I mean to think that Texas can rally and win the South after last weeks performance, that’s a pretty gutsy call.

Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Follow me on Twitter, Owen_Kemp

by Owen on Sep 29, 2010 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

There's so much anger on the UT team

that they would beat Boise State if they played today.

I’ve seen it before in the Big 12. A team suffers a devastating, terrible loss and that loss and embarssassment serves to motivate the team. They come back and beat a team the following week that they weren’t supposed to beat.

You ever seen that before?

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 30, 2010 7:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

it was more sarcasm...

yes I’m sure Texas still has a very good shot…what I was saying is that we could still play them in the Big 12 conference title game in theory, then I followed that up by making it sound like Texas was the longshot instead of us. Funny right?

But yes, definitely could see Texas rallying, I still think they have the makings of a great defense and I have no clue how they lost that one in the fashion they did to UCLA.

Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Follow me on Twitter, Owen_Kemp

by Owen on Sep 30, 2010 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm old...

so you have to use the sarcasm font

Or I won’t get it.

:-)

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 30, 2010 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

Shocking.

5. Honestly, I don’t really care.

Is being a football-only fan any better than being a basketball-only fan? Or am I misreading you because it’s not yet basketball season?

When is Late Night?

by Bensa on Sep 29, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

being a Kansas football only fan...

is definitely more honorable than being a Kansas basketball only fan. Takes more balls. It’s a fact, call KU Info. Do they still exist?

Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Follow me on Twitter, Owen_Kemp

by Owen on Sep 29, 2010 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's not yet bball season.

I don’t really start thinking about bball until after the bowl games and conference play starts.

It’s just not a sport that can hold my interest like college football can.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 29, 2010 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

And further....

there seems to be so much “drama” associated with the start of the bball that it really turns me off. I’d much rather wake up in January and then get immersed than have to read about such crap as a players Dad saying he’s better than our current players, or whether or not a certain player will qualify or whether or not a certain player is allowed to tweet “point plankin”, etc. etc. If you take off the crimson and blue glasses and look at it for what it is……it’s embarassing.

Granted this was a different time, but I long for the days when I was in school 88 to 92 when none of this shit happened. This was pre-twitter/facebook/myspace and that makes a difference.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 29, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep. Football team hasn't embarrassed the school at all.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Sep 29, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok, shouldn't have said that because it's in the past.

But to blame the basketball team for being “embarrassing” is to wear the football colored glasses over the last few years. Both teams have had issues and hopefully we’re beyond the embarrassing ones.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Sep 29, 2010 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's so much different.

The football team’s embarssassments have been the normal ones you find at every single college that has a football team. Legal troubles. Young kids playing a violent sport and taking the violence to society and breaking laws.

When is the last time a KU football player’s dad has publicly stated he’s better than current starters?

When is the last time there has been so much drama over whether or not a KU football recruit will qualify?

When is the last time a KU football player went haywire on Facebook and started speaking a different language, point plankin?

The worst that I can think of is that KU football player didn’t get his order at a drive through and tried to climb through the drive through window to get what he ordered. Hell, I’m not even sure that’s illegal and if you’ve ever been f*cked at the drive through, you might even empathize with the kid.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 30, 2010 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's only different if you're wearing the football colored glasses.

I’m sure the fights last year were all on the hoops team, right? The Mangino situation wasn’t embarrassing at all, huh?

Both squads have had their problems and if bball’s biggest problem is that a lottery pick’s father says he is better than a few guys on the team, it’s pretty mild.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Sep 30, 2010 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

No

We’re just going to have to disagree on this.

No the football team definitely shared some of the responsibility for the fight. But were there any video clips of the KAI rushing vans to campus to swoop away football players like some primadonna superstars? Uh, no. But there were for bball players.

Sure Mangino-gate was embarassing. But did it happen every fall?

With basketball it seems that it’s something EVERY fall going all the way back to Giles getting carved up at the Moon Bar. It’s always something.

The fact is that KU bball is much higher profile “event” than KU football. And thus everything is magnified more. You won’t convince me otherwise.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 30, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think I'm breaking any news by saying this

but when you bring in better athletes, there are going to be more problems associated with them. It’s the way it is.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Sep 30, 2010 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I get your point but

I think I could sucessfully debate the “better athlete” claim.

Better basketball players? Sure.

Better athletes? I’m not so sure.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Sep 30, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Take a look at the SEC.

Smooth sailing there?

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Sep 30, 2010 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

well, I don't see a ton of 350 lb basketball players

but that wasn’t my point either. I meant compared to the people they compete with.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Sep 30, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

That's my feeling -

I prefer football to basketball. Always have. To me it’s football season, I’ll start paying attention to Bill Self’s boys after Thanksgiving but until then, meh.

There is no red like Chiefs red.

by labbadabba on Oct 1, 2010 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Morningstar? I hope not

By last season and now, Reed has established himself as the better white boy guard. I hope either Little or Releford has done enough to start there, I’d guess Little. If not, then a three guard lineup of Selby, Taylor and Reed. Or Selby, Taylor and EJ.

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Sep 29, 2010 4:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree with you on the point of Reed vs Morningstar.

But just going from what we’ve seen in the past, I think Self has a Morningstar lean as far as starting goes. I think HCBS believes Morningstar is a more well-rounded player and matches up better with an opponent’s starter. As far as Releford and Little, I could see Little being an impact player this year. Releford getting more than 10-12 minutes a game will shock me.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Sep 29, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hear ya

but I think last year’s final game could have changed that. Morningstar did not nothing, Reed was awesome and almost the reason we won….I think this all changes this year.

by I need more Esteban on Sep 29, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Me too.

Definitely want Little or Releford to be manning the 3. I doubt it happens from game 1, though.

When is Late Night?

by Bensa on Sep 29, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

To Critic or not Critique, this is the question

1. With non-conference play wrapped up, what has been the biggest surprise of the season?

The amount of trouble the coaching staff had starting the season. I am glad that things seem to have settled down, and the development of the new guys is really encouraging, but it was really surprising to me that the adults in the group had so much trouble to start.

2. What do the Jayhawks have to do in order to be competitive in Big 12 games?

Stay healthy on the OL & DL & LB. IMO there is plenty of talent in the other areas, but we are so thin in these areas that one (another) injury could leave a gaping hole. And be aggressive across the board!

3. What Big 12 opponent are you looking forward to playing?

Definitely K-State. It will definitely be national TV and comes earlier in the season than mizzoo. We also need to reestablish control of the state. And all that stuff that Owen and Warden said.

4. Texas lost, Oklahoma has flirted with losing the last two weeks, and Nebraska struggled a bit over the weekend. Is the Big 12 down?

Maybe, or maybe the journo hyped teams of the preseason aren’t as strong as in the past. UCLA’s romp on the shorthorns is an embarrassment to the predictors as much as the players, tho they would rarely ever admit it. Instead, the most remain elite and create a distraction from their own shortcomings by creating a diversion. It’s not that they couldn’t predict the performance of a bunch of teenagers, it must be that those teenagers just aren’t very good. If they can’t spend an entire year spinning the same players, teams, stories, then it must be a problem with the players, teams, …

5. If I counted correctly, we’ve got 16 days until Late Night. Who is your starting five for the basketball team?

Glad that there are still 12 or so weeks of FB.
That being said, I think Selby starts the season on the bench/NCAA ~ DJackson.
I can also wholeheartedly see Brady or Tyrel starting at the start of the season, b/c Self likes the stability they provide. Ultimately, just as he showed at the end of last year, Coach knows that he needs to athleticism of Taylor, EJ, …
TT
Brady
Little
Marcus
Markieff

by dagger108 on Sep 29, 2010 7:58 PM CDT reply actions  

supposedly Little has improved quite a bit

that would be nice. We need a guy who can score from the wing to help McMorris out.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Sep 29, 2010 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

my $.02

1. With non-conference play wrapped up, what has been the biggest surprise of the season?

The turnaround of the offense from week one…i have to take my hat off to TG for being willing to make a change and go with the teams’ strengths, even if it’s not the offens he prefers

2. What do the Jayhawks have to do in order to be competitive in Big 12 games?

plain and simple, figure out a way to stop the spread…we’re not going to get it done by dropping 8 guys, I say play press coverage and blitz a lot…it could be ugly at times but what we’ve been doing hasn’t worked so i’d at least give it a chance.

3. What Big 12 opponent are you looking forward to playing?

definitely KSU…this state is only big enough for one good team, and it needs to be us…nebraska a close second because i’d like to send their arrogant asses out with a loss, but i don’t see it happening, not even close.

4. Texas lost, Oklahoma has flirted with losing the last two weeks, and Nebraska struggled a bit over the weekend. Is the Big 12 down?

i think down from the standpoint of truly elite teams, yes…however, i think the depth top to bottom is darn good…kinda like the Big 10 in many years.

5. If I counted correctly, we’ve got 16 days until Late Night. Who is your starting five for the basketball team?

short answer: who cares? it’s football season

long answer: TT, scrappy white guy of your choosing (i’ll vote for the 38 year old morningstar), Selby, Robinson, and Marcus Morris

BOOM YOSTED!

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Sep 29, 2010 10:46 PM CDT reply actions  

definitely agreed with this
i think down from the standpoint of truly elite teams, yes…however, i think the depth top to bottom is darn good…kinda like the Big 10 in many years.

Texas could be elite if they hadn’t decided to try to transform their offense from spread to running-based in one offseason.

The only people who really know where [the edge] is are the ones who have gone over it.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Sep 30, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I didn't get that

Texas has never been that good at running the ball with its backs since Sticky Ricky Williams left (McCoy lead them in rushing I think). Gilbert seems like he is a good passer, watching Tejas play this year… they seem uncomfortable to me. Maybe its having a new QB after McCoy was there for 8 trillion years but still…it just looks awkward. Its kind of like when KState had Freeman and they were chucking it around and etc. Just looked weird and uncomfortable, and wasn’t as successful.

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Sep 30, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

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