KU All-time Team: QB's
by Jayhawk12_28 on Jul 12, 2010 4:02 PM CDT
45 comments
I'm getting ready to head to a little R&R in southwest Colorado beginning tomorrow morning so what a wonderful time for a little front page fanpost action. Jayhawk12_28 couldn't have picked a more perfect time to do a little series on an All-Time KU football team. This and a few non-con previews should help get us by. Only a few more weeks until the start of fall practice.
-Owen K(Denver)
I thought this would be an interesting discussion, and a time waster. Next will be HB's then FB, WR, O-line, TE, LB, D-line, DB's, Kickers, and return men.
Later i'm going to let you guys nominate the options; but for now the two clear choices are Reesing & Hadl. Both very great QB's, Reesing owns most if not all of KU's passing records. Hadl was an All-american QB for KU; he also was RB his freshmen year. Hadl also played with the AFL's San Diego chargers. Plus for an on going joke Major Applewhite will always be an option.
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Bobby Douglass
Where the hell is Bobby D? He had a ten year NFL career. He was the only QB to win a conference title. Played in the Orange Bowl.
Maybe he isn’t quite on the level of Reesing or Hadl, but he at least deserves to be nominated, no?
And toss Whittemore up there too. That guy played pretty damn well considering how talentless the rest of that offense was.
"Got a bill that's big enough to twist the Tiger's tail. Husked some corn and made those SORRY HUSKERS BAIL!"
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jul 12, 2010 5:31 PM CDT reply actions
Yes Douglass was great
and i will put him in here but i didn’t want to see his name with no votes so if you promise to vote for Bobby he will be there.
Rollin' around in my 6 4. duece duece
by Jayhawk12_28 on Jul 12, 2010 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree whole-heartedly
on both Douglasa and Bill Whittemore
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Good point about Whittemore.
He pioneered the offense we got so used to seeing.
Its Reesing. There is no argument.
you can’t really compare today’s QBs in a pass happy spread to the old school guys but still:
Reesing owns every passing record.
Reesing led his team to the greatest season in the history of the program.
Period cut and dry
Shit happens when you win championships
Where are you headed Denver?
I spend a lot of time in SW Colorado. Specifically I love 4 wheeling in the mountains south of Ouray, visiting the hot springs all around there and stopping at the local Beer Garden in Ouray. Telluride is always beautiful year round. I love a couple of their local restaurants. Also the fly fishing can be great and just about anything else outdoors, biking, hiking, etc….
It's not that I'm lazy; it's that I just don't care. (#739)
If you like hot springs...
you might have heard of Pagosa Springs. Some of the best springs in the state. That’s where I’m headed for the week.
Love Ouray, love Telluride, I used to travel all over the state for work so I’m very familiar with those places…but Pagosa is a bit of a family spot for us, we’ve got a place there right on the national forest. Fishing, hiking and the best deck for summertime evenings.
If you like Beer Garden’s Pagosa Brewery has a real nice sized one as well. In general though, you can’t beat SW CO, it’s hard enough to get to that it remains a bit untapped by the tourists traps of the North.
In case you missed it...I used to go by Denverjhawk : )
Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
Follow me on Twitter, Owen_Kemp
Pretty jealous.
Fishing, hiking and the best deck for summertime evenings.
And yes, I know I haven’t worked in almost two months. Still jealous.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Being a big skiier (from living in Europe)
And enjoying outdoors bull, I need to visit Colorado sometime soon. I have friends that live in Denver and its 9 hours/a quick plane ride away. No excuses.
I’ve been trying to put together a fall trip to the area, and I’ll be e-mailing you for suggestions on places to go and see. Maybe we can finally have the RCT summit? Just need the rest of the site to come…
Somewhere…well I know where, her work… my fiance just rolled her eyes
Shit happens when you win championships
That drives not a lot of fun, I recommend flying.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
This is true
Although I got family in Salinie that be cool to see, so It’d be cool to see them on the way with a stop on ol 1-70.
Plus I got an SUV with four wheel drive which may be noice to have in them mountains. Unless you wanna front me some plane tickets… we’ll be friends… can’t you open your heart to a young man with ambitions?
Shit happens when you win championships
It does suck
but depending on where you live, by the time you drive to KCI, wait for your plane, board and fly to Denver, de-board, finally get out of the DIA, and make your way to Denver, you’re almost better off driving. Unless you’re going with people who want to stop every 2 hours.
Maybe as far as time goes but that stretch from Salina to Denver is awful.
I’ve driven to New York, Steamboat, and Houston all from KC and the road to Denver was easily the least enjoyable.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
Won't disagree there
but once you hit Limon it’s not so bad.
The scenery is horrible but I’m too impatient to wait in airports and not have control over anything. Of course, I’ve driven the Lawrence-Denver leg many many times so maybe I’m just used to it and it doesn’t bother me as much anymore.
I love climbing 14ers
So I’d show up. Not that anyone would care……
I’ve checked Quandry, Torreys and Greys Peak off my list. Many, many more to go.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Hadl
Reesing? I’m sorry, but no. And I became a Jayhawk fan in the Reesing Era. Reesing was a damn good QB for KU, don’t get me wrong, but he was no All American. He wasn’t even good enough to get invited to the NFL combine. He fit the system much like every QB that plays for Texas Tech. Does he own every passing record at KU? Yes. But again, it was the system. Don’t get me wrong, Reesing was a winner. He found a way at times that still make you scratch you head, but most QBs could have posted similar stats in that offense. IMO
Hadl was just an athlete that played QB. But he did so very well. So well that he went on to be an All American, MVP of the East-West Shrine Bowl/Game, and played professionally.
How could you say it was "the system"
When every QB in “the system” before Reesing didn’t do crap? Meier, Barmann, etc etc played in the exact same offense the year before and struggled. Reesing made the system. This isn’t Texas Tech where we have a potent offense every year.
Maybe you young kids don’t remember our team before Reesing. Yeah, I’m talking about the team that struggled like hell to score. The team that would win games 13-3. The team that if we scored 20 points we’d all crap ourselves.
Oh, and NFL careers have absolutely NOTHING to do with a successful college QB. Ever heard of Tom Brady? He sucked in college. Sucked. Now look. NFL was a different game. If you geared up a college offense would you choose Brady in college or Vince Young? Hell Tim Tebow might not even play QB in the NFL (and don’t get me wrong I don’t like the guy) but you can’t argue he was one of the best college QBs in history.
Reesing was inserted in an offensive scheme that struggled from 2004 onward, played his ass off and led his team to a BCS victory. Best season ever, best QB ever. Hadl and Douglas were awesome players and absolute legends, but from an all-time QB perspective, factoring in the stats, the circumstances and the wins, Reesing wins
Shit happens when you win championships
by KU Grad 08 on Jul 12, 2010 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Have faith my friend
I like to be ridiculously optimistic heading into every season. Maybe not Bensa optimistic, but optimistic. Sure more often than not I get my heart ripped out of me chest and fed to me but hey…isn’t that what sports are all about?
Shit happens when you win championships
We've got a lot more talent at QB now.
Barmann was like the 5th or 6th string guy. He had no business being a starting D-1 BCS conference quarterback. And who knows what would have happened with Kerry. Certainly we were a better team with both him and Sparky on the field, but Meier could have been very successful in ’07, as well.
There’s no doubt that our quarterback play will drop off some this year- if nothing else, the drop off in experience is massive. But these kids should be able to make some plays. If nothing else, they could be “game managers” that have success in play action after our bruising running attack wears defenses down.
"Got a bill that's big enough to twist the Tiger's tail. Husked some corn and made those SORRY HUSKERS BAIL!"
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jul 12, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Barmann wasn't a 5th string guy in the beginning
At one point he was our QB of the future. When Wittemore got hurt against TAMU in 2003 Barmann came in and played as a frosh and played well. He was the opening day starter in 2004 as a soph and played well until getting hurt against OU and then being out for the year.
Really he didn’t ever recover from the injury. He struggled to start his junior year and was replaced by Luke and then later Swanson. His senior year though he threw for 400 yards in three quarters against Nebraska in that overtime loss (although you and I could have thrown for that against the Husker’s defense back then).
So sure he wasn’t ever that good, but at one point the dude was a first-string “this is our guy” guy.
I think Meier would have been a good QB…our offense I think was better with Todd because of the deep balls (Meier couldn’t throw it accurately more than 20 yards) but Meier would have added a running threat from QB (like he did as a frosh).
Like you said, we benefited from having BOTH on the field ultimately
Shit happens when you win championships
You are correct.
Great summary of Adam Barmann’s tenure. However, I disagree with one point. I think Adam would have been an awesome QB if he had any sort of OL worth a shit in front of him. The kid could throw the ball and was decent enough at scrambling. But when you’re getting tossed on the turf every down, it’s only a matter of time before you break. And that’s what happened to poor Barmann.
And regarding Kerry Meier, no he would never be a good QB. Kerry could not shake one major problem: he loved to stare down his WRs. DBs loved Kerry Meier the QB and hated him as the WR!
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Note I said good qb, not great
He wouldn’t have been as good as Reesing, but you are judging him based off of his freshman year. Assuming he becomes a at least somewhat better as a passer and is as good a runner, thats a pretty good QB to me.
Shit happens when you win championships
Let's dispell this "bruising running attack" myth right now.
KU is NOT going to have a “bruising running attack” this season.
1) Our OL is built to pass block, not run block.
2) Our OL appears to be fragile as it is.
3) We do not have the RBs with size, speed, and durability (think Toben) to be “bruisers”.
In the future, perhaps. Now, no.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
When did Mangino rewrite the playbook
I believe it was the same off season that he brought Warriner in.
If you look back, I believe that you’re mixing apples and oranges b/c of the change in the playbook.
Which season?
Mangino brought in Warriner more than once.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
I'm guessing the last time
One of them was just after he rewrote the playbook
I'm just saying
Reesing passed like 70% of the time. How could you not break records with percentages like that? And like I said before, I’m not trying to dog on Reesing. He is one of the better QBs this school has ever had. I just don’t think he is the best.
I don't think it's the passing that makes Todd the best
It’s his leadership.
I’ve never seen another football player at any position change the morale and mindset of his entire team like Todd Reesing did.
Anyone in attendence at the CU game in 2006 knows what I’m talking about. We were getting worn down by a not very good CU team. We couldn’t do a damn thing offensively. The crowd was bored. Then some short kid starts throwing passes on the sidelines warming up. We come out in the second half and the energy and leadership this short kid brought with him was palpable throughout the stadium. You could really “feel” the energy this kid brought. The crowd actually fed off of it. And then this kid threw his first pass of his collegiate career – an interception! But that didn’t bother Coach Mangino (or the crowd). He stuck with him. And the next series Todd came out and took the f*ck over. His body language basically said to the team: follow me, we’re not losing this f*cking game. I’ll win it myself if I have to. Suddenly, the OL which was nothing in the first half, suddenly had a little explosiveness off the line. Holes opened. WRs started getting some separation. Passes were completed. And little Sparky carried the team on his back. Even when he fumbled on the 2 yard line (returned for a 98 yard fumble recovery TD) he learned a quick lesson there – you cannot take on a DT and win when you’re 5’9" and 180lbs. But it didn’t rattle him. He came right back out and lead the team to another TD.
Again, I’ve never seen a single player change a team so instantaneously as Todd did. And that’s what make him great.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Leadership...
He did have some amazing leadership…at times. His senior year, he probably could have done better in that regards. Didn’t I hear people talking about him at the bars the night before games? If that’s the case, then I wouldn’t call that leadership. And you can’t say he’s “the best” because of one game. There’s been tons of other backup QBs that have come in a game and turned it around for their teams. That’s why coaches do it. They are looking for that spark.
Look, I’m not out to bash Reesing. I just don’t think he’s the best KU quarterback ever. He did provide a spark to KU that seemed magical at times. He helped provide an Orange Bowl win that I will cherish in my heart forever. He broke just about every freakin record for a QB that KU has. It was unbelievable to watch. But for some people to say the system had nothing to do with it, I just can’t buy. KU tweaked the offense just for him. But you do that for playmakers. He was a playmaker. But when you start out every snap in the shotgun formation and can see the whole field, it’s a lot easier to hit 1 of 5 receivers that are trying to get open for you. He didn’t have a rocket arm and he wasn’t always the most accurate QB in the world. But you don’t have to be to toss up huge numbers.
Leadership?
The lack of leadership is what led to the 7 game spiral last year. That is not entirely Todd’s fault, and a huge part of the reason that I was glad to see the coaching change.
It is great to hear you relive the game, but I’d say the 7 game skid and interception against mizzoo to seal it is a great big pusy zit on the cheek of your prom queen. Obviously, a great QB, but can’t vote him the best with a blem like that.
I disagree
You need to get over the “7 game spiral”. It wasn’t Todd’s lack of leadership that caused that. Hell he was out on the field when his body barely allowed him to play. If that’s not inspiring then we truly have a team that is a bunch of pussies. Which we may have.
The 7 game spiral was caused by key injuries and a lack of depth. I suppose you can pin that on the coaching staff. Certainly they should have recruited more durable players and more of them!
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
the "young kids"
There are the “young kids” out there that only know Reesing as the QB at KU because we’ve gained fans over the last few years. A lot of those fans don’t know that KU has had some great players in the past. I’m a younger guy but I’m lucky enough to have a dad and grandpa that are sports fans and KU fans so I’ve hear all the stories of the greats we’ve had. But in my personal opinion and from the stories, I’d have to say Reesing was a special player and a very good QB, just not the best. I voted Hadl.
by hawkinwihita on Jul 13, 2010 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions
And to clarify, I think Hadl is awesome
But he was more to KU than a “QB.” His stats if I remember were more like 1200 yards passing and 1000 yards rushing. He also played defensive back and was a sick punter.
Really if I had to choose in contexts, I’d say Reesing is the best QB but Hadl the best overall player, if that makes sense, due to his all around the field ballerness
Shit happens when you win championships
In this era it is hard to be fair to all great KU qbs when Reesing did what he did. Hadl had a career which at the time put him in the likes of Starr and Dawson. In addition he is continuing to advance the KU program in athletic dept. Bobby Douglass was all american, KU 2nd OB and NFL . In addtion another name should be mentioned for his contributions include Nolan Cromwell.
Honorable Mention
A couple more QB’s I haven’t seen mentioned.
Mike Norseth (put up some big numbers under Mike Gottfried in the 80’s) – got a cup of coffee in the NFL for a couple of seasons with the Browns I think…or was it Cincy?
Frank Seurer – played briefly with the Chiefs – now a firefighter in Lenexa, KS I think.
Chip Hilleary – never was a great passer but was a solid runner and played with a lot of heart.
Mark Williams – came out of nowhere to lead KU to a top 10 ranking in 1995.
It would be nice to see more info than opinion
You’ve set up a nice outline. Probably should include references to supporting cast.
Kelly Donahoe
You could say the same things about Kelly as you do Chip Hilleary.
And now that Kelly is a head football coach in Blue Springs, we can hope he sends a few kids our way.
build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.
Donohoe
I started paying attention to KU football in the early/mid 80’s but the first game I ever saw in person was KU vs Louisville in 1989. Donohoe had a big day and hooked up with Quintin Smith for a couple of long TDs (I think Smith had over 200 yards receiving that day). Unfortunately, Louisville had too much talent with Browning Nagle at QB and Carwell Gardner at RB. Gardner pretty much ran over everyone. Schnellenberger was Louisville’s coach at the time.
Anyway, I believe Hilleary became the starter the following year. Donohoe was a better passer but he threw way too many interceptions. Donohoe didn’t have a single season where he threw more TD’s than INT’s. KU ran a lot more option with Hilleary and with running backs like Tony Sands, Monte Cozzens and Maurice Douglas and solid offensive line (Mason really knew how to build an o-line), why not?
As for Blue Springs recruits? Keep’em coming Kelly.
by KU_Lew on Jul 13, 2010 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I voted Hadl.
I think its very close between Reesing and Hadl. I gave Hadl the nod because he was an All-American where as Reesing was never considered for something like that. In fact, he was never even the best quarterback in our conference. Hadl was arguable the best in all of college football.
Hadl
Obviously Tood put up some big numbers, but it seems to me that the QB is more than just a passer or even a runner. He’s suppose to be the leader, and lead the team to victories. The program got progressively worse during Todd’s career, tho I fault the dysfunctional HC as much for that issue. There were obviously other issues influencing the losses, tho wasn’t that the case with most KU QB’s of the past. IMO, Todd gifted a few too many games (USF, CU, mizzoo ’10) for me to call him the best.
Hadl
I voted for Hadl. He was an extremely gifted athlete who could and did play multiple positions including QB and he played them all extremely well, All-American level of play at 2 different positions. It’s difficult to compare from different eras and Reesing had some great success at KU and holds most all of the schools records, but I feel Hadl is the best ever at KU by more than a little. Hadl was an All-American at RB, before switching positions to QB where he again earned All-American status. He was a starter who played both defense and offense at the same time when he was a RB and a CB his first 2 years. He was also a kick returner and a punter for us even while he was our starting QB! He actually lead the nation in punting one year! Yeah, not QB related but it shows just how incredibly gifted he was. He lead KU to our first bowl win ever with a crushing win over Rice who at the time was a lot better top level football program than they are today, had KU ranked in the top 20 for his 2 years as our starting QB, and he had a winning % higher than Reesing of 73% compared to Reesing’s 67%. Hadl was a 1st round NFL draft pick, who was picked 10th overall. He played in the East-West Shrine Game and the College All-Star Game and was the MVP in both, still the only player ever to do this! He played 15 years in the NFL as a QB where he was in 4 AFL All-star games, the MVP of one before the leagues merged to create the Pro-bowl and he was in 2 Pro-bowls and was an All-Pro one year. He’s also in the College Football Hall of Fame! I think it’s clear he’s the best ever QB at KU, but Reesing definitely a great one too. He’s a game changer who found ways to win and make plays when I don’t think hardly any other QB out there could of and he was loads of fun to watch. So, no disrespect to him at all from me. I just think Hadl was a better.
One name I think you left out also is Ray Evans. Obviously he was also a RB and CB too, but he did lead the nation in passing one year, was only the 2nd QB in all of college football to break the 100 completions in a season mark, got KU to our first Bowl ever, the 1948 Orange Bowl and was another All-American. He also played both ways while he was our starting QB and is the only person ever to lead the nation in passing and interceptions in the same year. That’s not throwing interceptions, that’s making interceptions on D as a CB. He lead KU in passing, rushing, total offense, and scoring for 2 years. When he came back from WWII he lead KU to a 79% winning percentage in his last 2 years at KU. He’s in the College Football Hall of Fame too. Yeah, and he was an All-American on KU’s basketball team at the same time as he was an All-American on our football team! I think he might be the only person ever to do this too, but I’m not sure.
by WildHawk on Jul 13, 2010 7:54 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
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