Kansas Football, A Look at the Fans
by Warden11 on May 21, 2010 7:00 AM CDT
in Football
130 comments
An interesting discussion was brought up in the comments of KUGrad's post earlier this week concerning the environment and fans of Kansas football. There is a segment of the members here that believe KU's fans are not keeping up their end of the bargain in supporting the football team. Complaints of fans leaving early, not showing up, and not caring were aired out. The other segment seems to believe the Field of Dreams model will work in Lawrence, "If you build it, they will come" (me). Personally, I believe that if Turner Gill can build a program that wins 6 games a year with the occasional 9 or 10 win season, the fans will fill Memorial Stadium.
The information had to be out there, I decided to do some research to back my point. To start, I looked up the attendance numbers for all of the Big 12 schools from 1998-2009 at the official NCAA site. For some reason, I couldn't find data for 2002 or 2004 from every school so I skipped those years. After I had the attendance numbers, I gathered the records for each team through the same time period (Stassen Database). The final piece I was interested in was how full each stadium was, so I figured the average attendance as a percent of capacity for each stadium (from wikipedia) for one of my charts.
Immediately we see that Texas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas A&M are in their own category as far as attendance is concerned. Four programs with very rich football tradition. Then, we can see that Kansas does have a very poor record of attendance for football. Surprising and sad to see both Iowa State and Oklahoma State ahead of us. It's not the nail in the coffin though.
The first few years that I'm looking at were truly terrible. Pretty sure all Kansas fans would like to forget those years entirely. However, this also shows a nice increase in attendance and wins during the Mangino era and that is something he definitely deserves credit for doing. Once the wins started increasing and bowl games were on the horizon, attendance went up.
The last thing that was worth looking into was a comparison across the conference looking at wins and attendance. This is where the percentage of capacity for each stadium was used. This was done to see if the other schools were better "football schools" that had fans show up when they weren't winning and had little hope.
Oklahoma and Nebraska were left out of this graph because their attendance figures and the stadium capacity numbers didn't agree with each other. Both schools were well over 100% full the last few seasons.
Nope, the data looks pretty clear. Win and the fans will show up. This does not answer the question about the fans leaving at halftime or searching out basketball players, maybe that's the real problem. Though I do think this puts the responsibility on Turner Gill and the Kansas Jayhawks.
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Good job...
…now tell me what the correlation coefficient is so we can know if its statistically significant or not! :-)
Without going back and looking, it was just above .4
Very similar to other studies looking at the same variables.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
The thing that kills KU
compared to some of the other schools above it (most notably, ISU, KSU, TTU) is its proximity to a major metropolitan area and the numerous other entertainment options that area offers.
Nice analysis!
There simply is no substitute for experience.
Really???
I’ve heard this argument for Boulder Colorado vs. the greater Colorado area (Mountains, etc.) but never about Kansas City. I sure as hell never found anything significant enough to keep me away from a Kansas sporting event.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
I agree with you Denver
For the large number of fans and alumni that Kansas City has, what could be more interesting on a Saturday in the Fall than KU football?
It's not that I'm lazy; it's that I just don't care.
I believe it's a factor
Some people can’t afford KU AND Chiefs season tickets. Some choose the Chefs. If you’re a fan in Ames do you realistically have that choice? No. Thus more people at ISU games.
I’ve had KU friends turn down FREE KU football tickets that I’ve offered because they were headed to Westport, the Plaza, and even just staying in Overland Park to visit family.
Now you have the Legends in KC, KS, the P&L District, and the casinos.
I’ve only been in Ames once and other than ISU there isn’t anything going on. Manhattan is the same thing, Lubbock I can’t speak to as I’ve never been. But it’s out in the middle of nowhere and I can’t imagine it has a Plaza, P&L District, Casinos, or a pro team to offer other options.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
I hear you on that KU vs. Chiefs argument...
I’ve known people who have switched from Chiefs to Kansas season tickets in recent years so that’s obviously true.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
That might be...
the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. hahaha I could name tons of other schools that live in a larger metropolitan area that have better attendance than we do.
But I don’t really think the initial attendance is what hurts us. As you can see, we are starting to fill the games before kickoff. The problem with us is 1/4 of the stadium leaves at halftime it seems like. It’s not because we live in a metropolitan area, it’s because a lot of our fans haven’t grown up KU football fans. If they want/need to do something else, it’s either a family needing to get their kids out of the there for whatever reason or it’s students wanting to go drink. It’s not because they want to go shop, bowling, watch a movie, or things like that.
The dumbest thing you've ever heard?
Dispute it then. Convince me that there are more entertainment options in Ames, Manhattan and Lubbock than what is available to the people in Lawrence.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
Also, look at our attendance last season
We were almost at capacity every game according to the chart above, correct? So therefore the problem isn’t people going to the games, its people leaving before the game is over…which is what I basically said above. Are there other options of entertainment besides KU football around the area? Yes! That’s not going to stop a true fan from attending a game though.
No, it's not
going to stop a true fan. I don’t disagree. But we’re not talking about true fans. This analysis is about average attendance over a period of 12 years and how that attendance compares to other to the other Big 12 schools.
Again, I don’t think it’s dumb to state that other entertainment options is a factor in lowering our average attendance compared to the likes of ISU, KSU, and TTU.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
I just don't see it being a huge factor
I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings saying it was dumb. I apologize! But more and more entertainment options are being created in the metro area (P&L, Legends, etc.) yet our attendance is on the rise. With your argument, I would think that the attendance is going down.
Entertainment options aren’t what’s hurting KU’s attendance, it’s the lack of consistency in football and the thought process of “we’re a basketball school.” I guess I should say the plethora of entertainment options aren’t a factor at all, but I think it’s such a small factor in the overall equation.
attendance may not be the measure to be discussed in this regard
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
That's not really the point...
…the point is there may be more entertainment options to the people in Kansas City (I doubt very many people from Lawrence go to KC for P&L/Plaza/Westport/Legends instead of a KU football game), but there’s a corresponding — and disproportionate — population difference. K-State’s football stadium holds 50,000 people, with a local population of only about 51,000 (throw in Topeka and it’s maybe 200,000). Meanwhile, KU’s stadium holds 50,000, and there’s a local population of well over 2 million. I don’t care how many other entertainment options there are — and as a resident, I can tell you there aren’t that many — the difference in population alone means that’s not an excuse for ‘poor’ attendance.
That’s to say nothing of the problem you have if your “fans” think going to Westport is a more appealing entertainment option than going to a KU game. Personally, I doubt that makes a lot of difference. As denver (and others) have repeatedly said, winning consistently and over a sustained period of time will bring the fans. Look at the Big 12 for several examples of teams that are in (or near) big cities and have no problem drawing fans: Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, hell throw Nebraska in there if you consider Omaha a big city (I don’t, but that’s neither here nor there).
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on May 21, 2010 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
And really I'm not sure why we are debating this now
It might have been an issue back in 2002, but last season we had over 50,000 average attendance and was close to that the years prior.
The real issue isn’t people coming, the games are sold out. It (as we were discussing earlier) is people staying constantly and buying into the game a lot more rather than making an appearance like they were attending a cocktail party.
We got the people coming now, its more about their attitude and vested interest. But I agree that KC doesn’t have much to do with it. I live in southern Overland Park and I can get to Memorial Stadium in 40 minutes even if not a little sooner if traffic isn’t bad. It takes me just as long if not longer to get into the heart of Kansas City.
Shit happens when you win championships
Headed in the right direction
and I think that is all that matters. I can remember going to a game when I was in highschool in the middle 90’s and I doubt there was even 20,000 people and the place really seemed empty compared to the last few years when there have been mostly full houses. The fan base may not be where it should be, but assuming HCTG continues to make the program relevant we will get there sooner than later.
Everybody hears, but few listen.
worst I ever saw it....
2001, thanksgiving weekend…Wyoming. Game was rescheduled due to 9/11. 10k max and maybe 500 of those were Wyoming family members. A far cry from the crowd that packs Arrowhead every year for the Border War.
You don’t correct 100 years of historical failure overnight, and yes we are definitely headed in the right direction.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
That's true
You don’t correct 100 years of historical failure. But KSU’s history is worse and their attendance is higher. What’s the explanation for that?
There simply is no substitute for experience.
signs of consistency?
1993 Kansas State 9–2–1 4–2–1 3rd W Copper 18 20
1994 Kansas State 9–3 5–2 3rd L Aloha 16 19
1995 Kansas State 10–2 5–2 T-2nd W Holiday 6 7
1996 Kansas State 9–3 6–2 3rd (North) L Cotton 17 17
1997 Kansas State 11–1 7–1 2nd (North) W Fiesta 7 8
1998 Kansas State 11–2 8–0 1st (North) L Alamo 9 10
1999 Kansas State 11–1 7–1 T-1st (North) W Holiday 6 6
2000 Kansas State 11–3 6–2 T-1st (North) W Cotton 8 9
2001 Kansas State 6–6 3–5 4th (North) L Insight.com
2002 Kansas State 11–2 6–2 2nd (North) W Holiday 6 7
2003 Kansas State 11–4 6–2 1st (North) L Fiesta † 13 14
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Yeah I'd agree with Denver
KSU won consistently throughout the 90s. If KU last season had gone 8-4, 9-3 etc we would have had 5 strait bowl eligible seasons plus a BCS win mixed in. We would be approaching KSU 90s esque consistency, at least the early to mid stage of it.
Last year just sucked so much…damnit it makes me angry
Shit happens when you win championships
hell man...
K-State only had one season in a decade with less than 9 wins. They were first in the North three times, won the conference championship once and went to 2 BCS Bowls. Plus every other bowl was pretty damn respectable. Even with 8-4 last year we still would have had some work to do to consider ourselves approaching the KSU 90’s esque consistency. What Bill Snyder did there was nothing short of a miracle.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Recent history is far from worse.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
It also goes back to the fact...
that they also didnt have one of the best basketball programs in the country to draw attention away from that success.
good point...
they were certainly starved for any signs of life in that athletic program.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Maybe
but I’m not convinced that Lawrence will ignore a sustained football program.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
I don't think they'll ignore it
but I do think it’s going to be harder to fully convince them that Lawrence is/can be a basketball AND football school.
Great post Warden
Def helps answer some questions we were posing in the last article. Here are my thoughts:
1) You can definitely see how key the 2003-2005 years were for turnaround (I noticed 2004 was left off but from what I remember of that year the attendance was probably about on par with 03 and a little less than 05). Point being, the year we got competitive again in 2003 and made the Tangerine Bowl, it really started putting people in the seats. Mangino’s early teams also were high scoring (Wittemore and Co) with no defense, which made for at the very least an exciting shootout type game.
2) Last season certainly shows that KU fans buy into hype, IMHO. With all the year to remember campaigns and stuff we packed the house compared to 05-08 which was consistent and increased steadily until a slight drop in 08. This leads me to believe that despite a lot of change and last season’s shitfest, we should still see a good attendance this fall because people will buy into the Gill hype.
3) I think showing the schools from 98-09 is unfair given how unimaginably aweful we were at the start of that period. I’m sure if you went from 05-09 we would compare a lot more favorably with the other schools.
Shit happens when you win championships
I don't think it's unfair, just doesn't favor Kansas at all.
I think showing the schools from 98-09 is unfair given how unimaginably aweful we were at the start of that period. I’m sure if you went from 05-09 we would compare a lot more favorably with the other schools.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
Well maybe unfair wasn't the word I was looking for
But considering 30,000 people would be willing to go watch that bullshit isn’t that terrible to me haha. If you are going 3-8 and 2-10…well its hard to get the house packed yanmean
Shit happens when you win championships
I agree to a point -
for some reason, couldn’t see the data on my work machine but I think I got the gist from the descriptions.
My concern isn’t so much about putting butts in the seats. Any winning team should be able to do that, though not all of the them do. But the fans have been pretty good since 2005 as far as getting into Memorial. My concern is more about the fan culture of KU football. A good fan barometer is the KUSports board. The slightest basketball news in late April completely trumps any developments in the football program, not just in terms of coverage but the quantity and quality of fan comments. I know it’s pretty unscientific but it gives you an idea. KU Bball is king and rightfully so, but football isn’t even able to play 2nd fiddle. In fact, I think Bball is the whole violin section, Football is lost somewhere in cello section.
There’s a lack of football culture in Lawrence simple as that. It’s almost like people don’t know how to be football fans. They don’t know that a football game is a spectacle that lasts all week not just a couple hours on a late Saturday morning. They don’t know that when the other team is pinned deep on 3rd down you must get loud and STAY loud. They don’t know that standing the whole game and yelling with ever beer-aided breath is much more intimidating that chanting “rip his fucking head off.”
That’s the kind of stuff that I’m talking about when I’m talking about (not KU football fans) but KU fans who happen to attend a football sporting event.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
by labbadabba on May 21, 2010 8:52 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
My concern is more about the fan culture of KU football.
Couldn’t agree more. Only consistency will change that.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
exhibit A...consistency changed things in Manhattan.
1993 Kansas State 9–2–1 4–2–1 3rd W Copper 18 20
1994 Kansas State 9–3 5–2 3rd L Aloha 16 19
1995 Kansas State 10–2 5–2 T-2nd W Holiday 6 7
1996 Kansas State 9–3 6–2 3rd (North) L Cotton 17 17
1997 Kansas State 11–1 7–1 2nd (North) W Fiesta 7 8
1998 Kansas State 11–2 8–0 1st (North) L Alamo 9 10
1999 Kansas State 11–1 7–1 T-1st (North) W Holiday 6 6
2000 Kansas State 11–3 6–2 T-1st (North) W Cotton 8 9
2001 Kansas State 6–6 3–5 4th (North) L Insight.com
2002 Kansas State 11–2 6–2 2nd (North) W Holiday 6 7
2003 Kansas State 11–4 6–2 1st (North) L Fiesta † 13 14
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
and obviously I'm oversimplifying it here...
by just showing K-State’s consistency but obviously they won consistently for a decade and it’s helped to overcome a pretty dismal history.
That said, what makes a school/state/person develop football fan culture if it’s not winning?
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Well as alluded to above
Their decade of dominance is ALL they have in Manhatten. No basketball success to fall back on (until recently).
KU could repeate the KSU decade of dominance (wouldn’t that be nice?) and our football program STILL won’t have the fanatical following that KSU’s had if our bball team keeps it’s winning tradition.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
KSU was good back in their
Ahearn days. Up through the 80’s right up till they ran off Dana Altman for some reason…
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Disagree about the blaming this on Lawrence,
the older people in that town know good football because of the old Lawrence High.
Again, I think this all goes back to winning and giving fans a reason to be a little football crazy. The Jayhawks just haven’t done that.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
To me its a two front battle
Think of us as Napoleon at Waterloo. One front is getting people to come to the games and stay throughout. We are close to getting that battle won (we def got people coming and filling the place up, and we are getting better with people staying compared to my early years in school).
The other front is getting that vested interest. The problem is is KU football fans have their guard up. They’ve been hurt so many times in the past 5 seasons. Blown leads late, close losses, etc. Before the Orange Bowl year Mangion was like 2-10 in games decided by a TD or less. I know during the orange bowl season I was never able to REALLY buy in, always waiting for us to blow a game and lose. I couldn’t help it it was the status quo. Last season certainly didn’t help, it erased a lot of momentum we had been building.
Hopefully CONSISTENT winning changes the second part and strengthens the first.
Shit happens when you win championships
My theory is
The play on the field got boring after the Orange Bowl year which is why I think people were leaving early even though we won the bowl game. I was never a huge fan of of the play ground offense we ran the last couple of years. It was the same swing passes and fades but minus the running plays. Pounding a running back thru a defense is exciting when mixed with good pass play calling.
It just got stale and by halftime a lot of people were bored. There were numerous occasions where one of my friends started getting antsy and we could tell he wanted to leave but we wouldn’t let him.
The boring predictable offense combined with crappy defense is why I think a lot of the fans were leaving at halftime.
The culprit is:
alcohol. I’m a student, but grew up in Lawrence and have gone to every game since I knew what football was. I’ve seen the 2-10 seasons firsthand and stayed till the end of every game. I am a big proponent of tailgating (so glad they began allowing drinking again several years back) and don’t mind throwing back a few beers before the game, but what happens is that a large amount of students come into the stadium on the verge of blacking out, and then leave at halftime to “go grab a couple more before the second half.” The problem is, they don’t come back in. It isn’t the plaza, or the legends, or casinos, but in a sense it is the draw of other forms of entertainment that’s thinning out the student section. It’s sad that alcohol is more important than football to these fans, but I will say that I remember hearing crickets on third down on defense when I was a kid, so it is refreshing to see that some progress is being made. I think consistent success will make that last push toward consistent fans, hopefully this year will be the first of a long bowl streak (assuming we don’t go to superconferences, but I digress)…
Another excellent point...and a problem I HATE...
personally I think it’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. Why even go to the game if you HAVE to leave at half time to go drink a few beers. Can’t you wait? The tailgating before is great, enjoy it, come in and watch the game…it’s an event, college football SATURDAY’S are an EVENT…your partying will be exponentially enhanced by further success of the program, better game times due to television and more excitement surrounding the community. Would you rather kick back for an 11am kickoff on FSN or party all day long for a Saturday night extravaganza on ABC!!! Have these students watched an SEC game on Saturday night? Those guys are having the time of their lives every moment of the weekend.
So in a sense, these people leaving at halftime to party…are really only hurting the quality of the party they could be attending. It’d be like scheduling your party at the same time as a really kick ass party that has a really good band, good beer, and top shelf liquor while you sit on the other side of the street with your natty light beeramid wondering why no one is coming to your place. It’s because you are making your party suck.
ok…bad analogy…but you are exactly right the whole, let’s go out at halftime and have a few turns into never returning for the half.
Even at the Insight Bowl a couple years back I ran into a lot of old friends and we’re talking about 27/28 year olds at this point. What do they do at halftime…“Hey come out to the parking lot we’re going to go get some beers” ….excuse me? Absolutely not, I don’t want to miss any of the game, not to mention they sell beer at this particular game? They missed a good portion of the 3rd quarter because of it.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
by Owen Kemp on May 21, 2010 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate watching a game when I'm hammered
It’s fun to be drunk sometimes but the times when I’ve gotten ripped in the parking lot I regretted it later because it usually meant I wouldn’t remember the game. I might as well have stayed home and saved the ticket money.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
and I just read the rest of your post
I agree with every fiber. That’s the point I was trying to make above that game day is an event. It is THE event. It’s not just something that happens on Fall Saturdays that’s mixed in with everything else, it is the be all and end all of any good collegiate weekend….
I agree, I don’t think the students and the people of Lawrence know what they’re missing. This is what I was talking about in a comment on Grads thread, Lawrence may be close to a metro area but it is VERY cloistered. It lacks the KC vibe and is nothing like Topeka or Wichita (thank God) and the people seem perfectly content to politely cheer the home team. But I bet if you took some locals on a trip to Oxford, Baton Rouge, Columbus, Ann Arbor, or hell up to Lincoln they would be shocked.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
So what would you guys prefer
People going to the game drunk/leaving early?
Or people not going at all?
If I’m going to take one, I’m going with the former…
Shit happens when you win championships
well sure...
but what’s wrong with tailgating…getting a good buzz…getting rowdy and staying through the game?
Or are we just not capable of that in Kansas? Other schools seem to go two full halfs without spilling over into the parking lot and never returning.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Human atanomy + length of a game
People who get REALLY drunk before a game will either leave because they are going to fall asleep/pass out or because their buzz wears off and they want to get it back.
The issue isn’t tailgating, its the attitude of some people that “I have to get wasted to go to the game.”
Some of my friends were like that and would leave early/not go because they had to. I would make em. I didn’t want them blacking out or puking in the stands, just go home/stay home.
I would treat saturdays as an all day drinking deal. Drink in the morning for tailgating, maybe a little around the game, dinner (maybe a nap) then night drinking. The problem is the people who need to get absolutely shelled by an 11:00 am gametime
Shit happens when you win championships
the tortoise always wins the race on gameday
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
by Owen Kemp on May 21, 2010 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And to go along with that, an issue gets raised with the lady folk
And I’m not trying to be sexist, but from what I’ve seen first hand with friends and in the stands, girls tailgating can be detrimental to attendance/support/whatever we are talking about. A lot of the girls I would know would get tickets and plan on going, then start drinking with us guys and be out and not even make it in.
Where as if it was a basketball game they would never think about drinking. But maybe there is also a difference with the two sports in that regard. A lot of basketball games are during weeknights where drinking isn’t really an option (Big Monday, Wednesday, etc).
Maybe a lot of it just has to do with students saying “its saturday, I worked hard all week, there are tailgate parties everywhere…screw it I’m getting bombed”
Shit happens when you win championships
11am start times suck too
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Prior to a BCS bowl or national championship game?
Count me in.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
by Rivethead on May 21, 2010 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
When did it being a weekday stop college kids from drinking?
Have times changed that much since I got out of school?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
It doesn't
And I did it a plenty a time. But your the numbers guy. If you had a graph of alcohol consumption by students it would obviously be a lot higher thursday-saturday than other days
Shit happens when you win championships
You make a good point but you have to also remember,
that before Al Bohl changed the tailgating rule to allow alcohol, people weren’t coming to the games in the first place, let alone leaving at halftime. Obviously people would still drink before the games back then but the atmosphere was nothing like it is now. So it’s kind of a catch-22 in that people leave at halftime to go tailgate more, but at least they came to begin with.
I think winning more consistently will keep people in the stands, but as of now that’s not being done. And quite frankly, I’d rather go drink than watch TTech throw screen pass after screen pass enroute to 63 points.
I was lucky enough to be taking the F.E. exam all day during the TT rout, so I “unfortunately” had to miss that one. I agree whole-heartedly with you that the difference in tailgating before Bohl changed it was night and day. That first year after when there were tailgating zones and such, Memorial Stadium finally began to have that gameday feeling, whereas before it was more show up and watch some football. My beef isn’t with allowing alcohol at tailgates as I’m all for it, mine is with the idiots that think it’s the reason that they are there. As Denver said, the SEC football atmosphere is like an enormous party every weekend, but football’s still the focal point (I’ve never attended an SEC game, so i’m speaking entirely from what I’ve read). I went to the KU-Notre Dame game years ago up in South Bend and they had RVs that had been tailgating for four days, but you’d better believe the stadium was packed for all 60 minutes. All I want to do is go scream myself hoarse for a few hours and watch some good football. I REALLY hope Gill puts us back on the upward trend and everything falls into place fanwise.
by P. J. Karasek on May 21, 2010 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you.
With an established tradition I think it can happen but it will take some time. Right now everything is only a basketball culture. There are probably people in the SEC who would love seeing 16,300 people at every basketball game but they don’t have the decades of traditon o support it. Just like we don’t for football.
I do think that with more wins and less letdowns, there will be less of the halftime “mass exodus” that occurs. Give the people something to stick around for, and they will… eventally.
I still don't get the halftime exodus
Is it really THAT hard to sneak in a flask?
I don’t think so. I think I did it for nearly every game I went to (peppermint scnapps during the cold days, Ron Bacardi (to be splashed with a litte Coke) during the warm days. Drink just enough to keep a little buzz going but not so much I end up running to the bathroom every ten minutes (five now that I’m old).
There simply is no substitute for experience.
no it's not...
and it should be much easier to get away with it now. I can remember getting a flask in almost all the time back in my days at KU. The tricky part was pouring it. I once had a security guard spot me from 4 sections over and come make me pour it out because there was nobody in any of the seats and he had a clear line of site.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
I've never been caught
But I’ve seen lots of kids get nailed with booze and then the people dump it all out. In the stands. Its sad to watch.
The trick is to do mixed drinks. Either buy cokes and shit there and sneak your flask in and secretly pout it in.
Or go with a woman who has a purse, and mix whiska/rum into coke bottles before the game and have her bury them in her purse. Thats what I do for cold games when the occasion calls for it.
Plus a few shots of heroin in the bathroom in between
Shit happens when you win championships
I don't think the folks who are tailgating are the ones leaving
most of the tailgaters appear to be alumni. I think he’s prolly referring to the frat boys who bail and try to grab another brew at the Wheel. The least they can do is throw up on Missouri street on their way…
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
by labbadabba on May 21, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
P.J.
You make a good point but remember you’re making this point for a small fraction of the fans.
The students do not even come close to making up the majority of fans in attendance at a KU football game. It’s the locals and the alumni who do.
And those are the folks that have other entertainment options that I spoke of previously.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
agree, see above
I’m blaming the fan culture more on the locals and alumni.
Students are students, they’re going to be loud and rowdy no matter what.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Thanks.
Thought I’d step away from basketball for a post or two.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
Heres my question
And I’m interested to get everyones take on this:
How many colleges can you think of that have a HUGE following/big game day atmosphere for both basketball and football.
I grew up a wisconsin fan and they are good at both, but I’m drawing a blank for others. There isn’t one in the SEC (everyone is football except kentucka who is only hoops), ACC its either football (VTech) or Basketball (Carolina schools)…
I dunno. Seems like traditionally, its harder for a school to get a cult following/big toime atmosphere in BOTH sports.
Shit happens when you win championships
that's a tough one....
and if I had to guess…I’d say a somewhere in the Big 10 maybe. I’d have to run through the list in my head….give me a little.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Yeah, and there is still a clear favorite though
Like Wisconsin has an epic home crowd in the Kohl center, its sold out, etc…but its still not football. The Michigans….eh I dunno.
I think its success. Apart from Florida and then us, no team has ever won a BCS bowl and a national title in hoops the same season. Schools are usually good at one or the other (over a long period of time). Not surprisingly, fan support usually is strong for one or the other
Shit happens when you win championships
so is success tied to fan support...
or is fan support tied to success…
it would appear that the former is the case.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
I would say
Fan support is tied to success AND success is tied to fan support, but it almost always goes in that order…
If that makes sense…
Shit happens when you win championships
Im not sure about how good of attendence they've had for football recently...
but UCLA would also be fit that bill IMO. Oh and Wisconsin basketball has also had hockey to compete with (although its caught up quite a bit since they started winning more). Remember, their hockey games have had attendances higher than our football games lol.
LA in general is not really well known
for die hard fan support…
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
As per usual
I’ll throw out Michigan State.
Those kids are fanatics for both football and basketball (and hockey and even wrestling a little bit too).
There simply is no substitute for experience.
hockey def -
mid 90’s when both MSU and Michigan were vying for the frozen four year after year those matchups were great!!
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
KU Grad 08 hit the nail on the head
when he pointed out how many times the fans have been let down over the last few years. The number of close losses and seasons that were almost good enough for a bowl game have been ridiculous.
I’ll stick my neck out and support my team every time because I simply don’t care what somebody else thinks of our program. However, I think many other more casual fans don’t want to come off as big KU football supporters because they feel they would have to justify it to rival fans. It’s easy to be a fan who comes to the game as an excuse to drink, it’s much harder to be a hard-core fan that sticks with your perpetually disappointing team year after year…always hoping that maybe they are finally ready to turn the corner.
One problem that I’ve noticed over the last few years is that the cheers and traditions that work in a basketball arena don’t always translate well into a huge outdoor stadium. For instance, the LETS GO JAYHAWKS—CLAP—CLAP—CLAP,CLAP,CLAP cheer that works fine in Allen Fieldhouse always gets out of timing with the time delay in Memorial.
Students that enjoy the comraderie of knowing what to do and when to do it to make Allen Fieldhouse intimidating suddenly are lost when they get to Memorial.
On the positive side a couple of nice changes have come around over the last couple of years. I for one, think that the “YOU LET THE WHOLE TEAM DOWN” cheer is one of the funniest and most original chants I’ve ever heard. Give the program some time with good consistency and more and more of these cheers will start to develop.
by Jeff Burtin on May 21, 2010 1:00 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
To some degree I think people just built a permament guard up
Like cubs fans have done in baseball. You become apathetic towards the team so when they do lose you don’t get hurt. If last season had happened my sophomore or junior year in school I would have shrugged it off and said “meh, bad season, we blew games again” whatever like always.
Instead us on the site went all-in and it stung even worse especially after 07 and 08. Its easier for me, KU has been decent at worse since I started school. Had I had to watch the “teams” KU had in the late 90s and early 00s I might be more “meh, whatever” like a lot of fans are. I’m a sports junkie though and nutts. The casual fan…I can understand their viewpoint too
Shit happens when you win championships
Dude - eff Cubs fans.
Whiney bitches. They don’t have it nearly as tough as they think they do. Can’t stand effing Cubs fans.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
They are my second least favorite baseball fans
Next to twins fans
Shit happens when you win championships
Eff Cubs Fans?
Huh. I’ll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt that you are referring to the frat/sorority/see-and-be-seen crowd that currently tends to grace the stands of the friendly confines. A lot of those fans go to the game because it’s the place to be, not because they care about the Cubs.
10 or 12 years ago, it wasn’t all that cool to be a Cubs fan. For instance, games often didn’t sell out, even as recently as 1999. But you know what? I was a Cubs fan then. And I’m still a Cubs fan today. Now, I don’t necessarily begrudge all the johnny-come-latelies, but I don’t have to afford them the same rank of fandom as I grant myself. So go ahead and throw all them under the bus. That’s fine. But don’t go throwing me in with that lot. I resent it, and I’ll always resent that.
Now get off my lawn!!!
When is Late Night?
by Bensa on May 21, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL - fair enough...
Bensa, you and I are strange, we mostly get along fine except for a couple issues about which we both feel strongly. Part of comment comes from me as Royals fan. When you’re a fan of a team that just played the worst 15-year stretch in baseball history it can make one a wee bit bitter.
When I see the Johnny come lately Cubs fan whine about how long and how severely the cubs have suffered I laugh a very cynical laugh to myself.
No slight intended of course to actual fans of baseball who happen to cheer for the Cubs.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
rec'd for standing up for yourself.
Still not sure which fan is more pathetic- Royals or Cubs
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
I don't claim to know the answer to that one
I don’t begrudge any legit Royals fan’s pathetic-ness. But I don’t think there’s any group of fans that have actually had it worse than Cubs’ fans have. But I’m biased. I know.
When is Late Night?
I guess that gets down to it.
Cubs fans get lumped in with all of the bandwagon frat boy types.
You said “legit Royals fan”, that’s all there is.
The true Cub fans and all Royals fans are both stuck in a crappy world.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
pathetic?
I wear it like a badge of honor. Only a true fan would be a Royals fan.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Yup.
I think KU needs some new football traditions. They don’t necessarily have to be original, just new for KU.
For example, if I was a KU student, I would be majorly promoting the score points = make out with your date or the hot chick next to you tradition that A&M has. That has to be the best tradition I’ve ever seen. Implement that and make it stick and I’m betting a lot of KU students wouldn’t want to leave at halftime, especially if we have a high-scoring offense!
There simply is no substitute for experience.
Taking this a step further.....
KU does have some cool traditions that it needs to keep and enhance.
For example, whent the band comes pouring into the stadium onto the field (through the tunnels)……that kicks ass (when the band is big and loud anyway).
KU is the ONLY school in the Big 12 with blue in its colors. We don’t utilize that fact enough. A white out? f that. A SEA of BLUE. Not frickin pink. Not crimson. Not white. Blue. KU blue. KU football apparal only. Not basketball. Football. KU stuff only. Leave your frickin ND baseball cap at home. Leave your pro team logo knockoffs at home.
Rant over.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
I agree
A friend of mine on a cool fall afternoon wore a PURPLE jacket. We were looking at him like he’d lost his mind. I’ve got blue stuff to wear from t-shirts all the way up to heavy coats.
The only clothes I wear say KU on them
Shit happens when you win championships
by KU Grad 08 on May 21, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Good rant...
I love the sea of blue! I hate when people come to the stadium wearing their crimson shirts when we’re playing Nebraska. I mean seriously! Do they even have a clue who we are playing that day? The only time I think a person should wear crimson at a game is when you make a road trip to Mancrappin. The blue gets lost in the purple, but that crimson sticks out like a stop sign.
Remember when
they used to play both the bells and the riff of Hells Bells at the games? I miss that.
Yeah - I liked the bells
it was a nice touch.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
That was sweet
Reminds of my freshman year and we beat KState for the first time in 15 years and I rushed the field (the first of many, since after that we rushed the field everytime we beat someone) until 06
Shit happens when you win championships
Lol
I think they were still doing the bells last year.
Just not a whole lot of big plays to bother playing them.
What a depressing year. :-(
I meant the pregame
Last year they’d play the bells, then show the video, and then play Enter Sandman. It was better when they used to play the bells and then the guitar riff. You used to get the whole intro to Hells Bells but last year was just the bell part. At least as far as I can remember.
Hells Bells is my Ringtone
Maybe if we all change our ringtones to Hells Bells, exchange numbers, and call each other right before the game we can get it reverberating throught the stadium.
Knowing what we know about Coach Gill's beliefs....
I doubt ‘Hells Bells’ will be played anymore.
There simply is no substitute for experience.
Good point
Hadn’t thought about that but I think you’re right. Too bad too because it was a perfect song for the campanile
Any chance
KC or Rockchalk chime in on this thread?
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
I'm working all day too...
see, I’m working right now…I’m typing something very important.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Rockchalk?
Never heard of him…
KC’s face a book said he is in the midst of some epic 9 day marathon of working. I do miss him around these parts though, and the good-natured rogering we used to give one another over matters of life and sport.
Shit happens when you win championships
I can assure you he'll be back come fall...
pretty sure he picked up a second job over the summer, plus he’s been doing a little work on a soccer blog of his own so I just told him to help where he could, but I’m sure he’ll dive back in come August.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
I don't want him back
I’m too hurt. If he leaves a second time the hurt will be even greater
Shit happens when you win championships
It looks like RC still checks SB Nation
he mostly votes on polls, he hasn’t commented on any site in over a month… weird…
I hope our good natured ribbing didn’t send him off…
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
nobody ran him off...
but he has gone into a bit of a retirement.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
In reality, as many KU FB fans exist as fans at Allen
So far unsaid is that that that KU football attendance has been bolstered, especially pre- final three Mangino years, by greater proximity to other Big12 schools, namely NU and KSU. Every other year 15-25000 Husker fans invade the stadium and in KSU’s glory years, the Purple was dominant in the end zone. I recall at least one game that was about 30000 NU fans and 15000 KU fans.
yep I remember those days for sure...
definitely don’t see that nearly as much anymore.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
There is absolutely no way
I’m wasting my internet cafe time and money reading 120 posts.
However, the problem has nothing to do with KC entertainment. Fans aren’t walking out at halftime to go shopping. Students aren’t capable of driving there.
I’m a student. When we have these 11:00 am kickoffs, we start drinking early. I mean early. Like beat the sun up and have a keg tapped by 8:00. Kegs and eggs, things like that. I stay to the end of the games because I like football, I don’t really care if it’s KU or not, I just like the sport. But the majority of the problem can be linked to the early start times. Think about it:
We pull fans from both the KC and Topeka metro areas. That means those fans have to wake up early, drive to the stadium and get set up. If a KC fan leaves at 8:00 am, they can make it to Lawrence by 9:00 am and be completely ready to eat/grill by 10:00 am. Oh, wait, kickoff is in an hour. That makes zero sense. Students would LOVE to sleep off their friday nights until noon, wake up, shower, and then start grilling and spread the drinking out over a few more hours and at a much more reasonable time of day. Get to the stadium around 4 pm for the 6 pm game. We can do our own thing, we can sober up to meet families at tailgating spots. Fans from outside of Lawrence can run a few errands on a Saturday morning before heading to town.
Kickoff time is the problem. When students start beer-bonging pounders at 8:00 am, very few have the tolerance to stay interested in anything but a power nap by halftime. Kids are leaving to go back and drink, eat food that they didn’t have time to grill, meet families outside who wanted to tailgate and enjoy themselves, or going to parties where the kegs are still flowing and they already paid for a cup.
Yes, winning will always bring fans to the stadium. Science, charts, common sense, history and everything else have proven that. Changing the start times to a more reasonable afternoon or evening slot would go a long ways towards changing the culture and keeping the fans in the seats. A combination of both will produce what we want.
I really hope start times don't have that much of an influence.
I doubt they do in Austin, Norman, Lincoln, or any other town that has a successful college football team.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
I'd agree
Every school has early games, late games, etc.
I think early start times are a part of the problem and later games have a much better gameday atmosphere. So the issue lies more with people sacking up and rocking early.
Shit happens when you win championships
But what about noon Chiefs games?
People don’t seem to have a problem getting up early to tailgate for those…
Also, why everyone feel the need to get sauced before the game? I can see getting full on some bbq and a couple of brews, but is getting hammered a requisite for seeing a game?
Maybe that’s the problem. Maybe folks are viewing game day as just another excuse to drink and oh by the way also attending a football game. Maybe THAT’s the culture issue that needs to be adjusted.
For me, just give me a beer or two and I’ll go enjoy the game any time of day.
The Kansas City Royals; Successfully failing since 1986
Well this is KU
We don’t make the top party school lists for none good reason
Shit happens when you win championships
You're exactly right!
“Maybe that’s the problem. Maybe folks are viewing game day as just another excuse to drink and oh by the way also attending a football game. Maybe THAT’s the culture issue that needs to be adjusted.”
Plus, when it comes down to game time, KU will go with whoever wants to air the game. If they have an opening at 11am, that’s what time the game is. If they have one at 2:30pm, I guess that’s when we’ll be playing. I do agree though that 11am is the worst starting time for the games. It limits the game DAY atmosphere. You can only do so much before you go into the stadium. Especially if you’re a student and want good seats. Unless you have people saving you some you have to enter the stadium 2 hours early.
I think we also lost a KU FB generation
The football in the 80’s and 90’s for the most part sucked. I was a football guy from a football region. I sat through the ass whooping on a weekly basis during the season, but not very many of the students did. I think this hurts us bad now as the students from that era are now the ones with families that should be raising a new crop af KU fans. Many of the ones I still keep in touch with only go to a few high profile games a year.
As many stated winning consistantly will change the culture, but only over a long time. Also consistant sellouts will increase the value of seeing the game in person. This is the only reason I believe we should wait on any stadium expansion plans.
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