KU vs Ok State: Plus/Minus (plus T2 and Aldrich talk)
by Warden11 on Feb 28, 2010 12:51 PM CST
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PrintNot a whole lot can be said about the game that Denver and KC haven't already posted, so I'm going to post the numbers and then address a few concerns that have been posted in the last 24 hours. Cool?
| STARTERS | MIN | FGA | FTMiss | REB | AST | STL | BLK | TO | PF | PTS | Plus/Minus |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Marcus Morris, F | 25 | 7 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 10 | -2 |
| Cole Aldrich, C | 24 | 9 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 11 | 11 |
| Xavier Henry, G | 32 | 12 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 17 | 5 |
| Sherron Collins, G | 36 | 16 | 2 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 6 | 2 | 22 | 6 |
| Tyshawn Taylor, G | 27 | 8 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 8 | 2 |
| Thomas Robinson, F | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| Jeff Withey, C | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Brady Morningstar, G | 16 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
| Tyrel Reed, G | 16 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 3 |
| Markieff Morris, F | 22 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 6 | 4 |
| Totals | 58 | 8 | 26 | 10 | 13 | 2 | 12 | 20 | 77 | 30 | |
| STARTERS | MIN | FGA | FTMiss | REB | AST | STL | BLK | TO | PF | PTS | |
| Matt Pilgrim, F | 23 | 8 | 0 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 | 18 | 12 |
| Obi Muonelo, G | 38 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 17 | 5 |
| Keiton Page, G | 29 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 4 | 15 | 8 |
| Fred Gulley, G | 29 | 2 | 0 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 6 |
| James Anderson, G | 36 | 19 | 1 | 8 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 27 | 17 |
| Jarred Shaw, F-C | 3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Nick Sidorakis, G | 25 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | -1 |
| Marshall Moses, F | 17 | 4 | 0 | 7 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 8 | 6 |
| Totals | 53 | 6 | 34 | 16 | 8 | 5 | 15 | 21 | 85 | 53 |
Cole Alrdich ends up leading the Jayhawks at +11. Honestly, that's a pretty generous number and he did earn it. I just don't like it. He finished the game with 11 points and 5 rebounds without committing a foul or a turnover. Basically his numbers look really good because he didn't do anything to hurt the team according to the box score. Sherron finishing at +6 is a minor miracle. His play was fairly awful for the first fifteen minutes and he only played well for less than half of the game. Oklahoma State's final plus/minus looks very similar to what a Kansas one will look like following a good game. Two guys in double digits followed by three or four guys between +5 and +10. Kansas didn't get that great team effort yesterday.
Onto other items of business, first up is Tyshawn Taylor. There is no question that he can be a frustrating player. Throw in some non-basketball related items and it is understandable that a few fans aren't real high on him. However, he's part of this team and going forward this team will be better with him than without him. For fun, a little test. Below is a graph showing four Kansas guards and their Game Score for each Big 12 game.
*Game score is my plus/minus on steroids. It's not perfect but I believe it's better than what I typically use, just takes a little bit more work.
Play along and guess which color belongs to each player. Remember, this is only including Big 12 games.
Sticking with game score, Sherron leads the 1 and 2 guards and averages 10.7 per game. Guess who comes in second? That's right! Tyshawn Taylor averages 5.9 per game. Morningstar isn't far behind at 5.5 and Reed is the least "productive" of these four at 4.1. Basically, Morningstar and Taylor average fairly equal production, just in different ways. One other note on Morningstar, he hasn't made a 3 since February 8th.
*Xavier Henry mainly plays the 3, so I'm not including him with these four guys.
Discussion item number 2, from the game thread yesterday:
Cole pretty much gets taken out of the game when we try to run with people.
24 minutes and no foul trouble for Aldrich, so Oklahoma State definitely took him out of the game. Yet, the game wasn't that up and down, only 71 possessions for Kansas. That's a little above their average, but nothing super fast. It does bring up an interesting question, does Aldrich struggle when Kansas plays up and down games? In order to check this, I'm going to do the same thing I did for Tyshawn Taylor in the Tempo and T2 post. (Cole's tempo-free +/- compared with possessions).
This actually shocks me a little bit. It appears that Aldrich is a more productive as the game speeds up. Though I wonder if even using the tempo-free numbers here throws this off because it still relies on counting stats. I'm not sure if just taking the number of possessions to 70.3 (KU's average) is enough. Thoughts on this?
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Brady
I’m just going to put this out there: Morningstar has been sucking ass lately. I know his role isn’t to score a ton of points, but that’s just a pathetic box score right there, and it’s been like that for a while now. He’s not hitting open shots. He’s not getting steals or assists. Is he the red line in the graph?
We throw a lot of attention at Tyshawn around here, and some of it is justified. But do we really have a better option right now?
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Feb 28, 2010 2:02 PM CST reply actions
I don't think so.
But do we really have a better option right now?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
FREE ELIJAH!
Worth a shot?
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Feb 28, 2010 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe in January.
I can’t imagine throwing him in against K-State and Mizzou, two of the best defenses in the conference. I’m just hoping Collins takes over and closes out the season in great fashion.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
No.
If he was, the guy making 3 mil a year would put him out there.
by 2.1 seconds left on Mar 1, 2010 9:30 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe it's not the game pace...
as much as the speed of the other team. When a team tries to line up and play us in a traditional way Cole is a force inside. If you penetrate and dish…Cole can’t seem to keep up. He’s a near 7 footer, he just isn’t quick enough to compete with anyone in terms of quickness and agility.
He is what he is and 98% of the time that’s great, but there are certain matchups where he can be severely limited, Missouri is a game that concerns me from this standpoint if they can hit their jumpshots. In our first matchup they didn’t and Cole looked like an animal.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
and maybe I'm just way off base...
it just feels like there are certain games where Cole really looks gassed, slow and out of place in the flow of the game. I would think there is a commonality somewhere….undersized, super quick, athletic teams is my hunch.
53 Conference Championships!! and now 6 IN A ROW!!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
That could be it.
when the opponents don’t have another true center that hangs around the paint, Aldrich is pulled away from the basket and is forced to cover more ground defensively.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
Frustration setting in
Just watched the game again. (for some reason) I’m so frustrated with Brady right now. He’s been absolutely worthless the last two weeks. I picked on him one game (@Colorado, IIRC) and people called me out for it. Well, guess what – you were all wrong. I was just a week ahead of all of you.
"Not to be cliché or anything, but I’m Jayhawk born and Jayhawk bred and when I die I’ll be Jayhawk dead." - Ovechwin
Early KSU Thoughts going to be posted today?
I’ve got something I’m going to take a look at and possibly post tonight.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
In his defense, OSU pretty much runs staggered screens 50% of the time on offense
And when they do, they try to pick on the same guy. I understand where you’re coming from in this game at least, but its tough as shit to run in a circle chasing a guy through two screens, especially when your last big man acts clueless as to why JA is running past him to the 3-pt line and Brady is getting knocked off his path chasing him.
But, on offense…Brady has looked a little clueless in recent games. Don’t have much to say about that.
by 2.1 seconds left on Mar 1, 2010 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
Good point.
However, it’s not like this was the last time we’ll see an offense like that. We need better communication by the team to switch on those screens to prevent open shots, etc.
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Mar 1, 2010 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
I've been bitching about him for weeks
And everyone keeps saying “he isn’t there to score points, he does all the little things, etc”
Well he isn’t doing the little things either anymore, can’t hit water from a boat etc.
X is the only player hitting outside shots. Morningstar and Collins are both just not even close to decent shooting long range. If this continues we are very beatable. Those guys need to shoot at least 35% from 3. Especially Sherron. First half we would have stayed in it with OSU had he hit some. He missed at least 6, 4 wide open
by Andrew Clark on Mar 1, 2010 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
I think Sherron was in a hell of a funk
you could tell it was real because of those 2 missed free throws in the first half. I think he may have shot himself out of it, though, by the end of the game.
He hit two free throws late in the first half and then in the 2nd he was hitting the deep threes that we know him well for. That’s what I think is a good thing coming out of that game, is that I believe Sherron shot himself out of his funk. We will ultimately see over the next couple games but in the 2nd half he was hitting threes and he finished around the rim a couple times too so I think we’re all good.
by I need more Esteban on Mar 1, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
God I hope you are right
Lord knows we need it
by Andrew Clark on Mar 1, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Is the flubbed free throw the dividing line
between decent Brady and bad Brady? I have to imagine it’s pretty humiliating.
It might be.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
good question
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 1, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
What game was that?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
Texas
which was Feb 8.
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 1, 2010 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
Texas game Brady had an 8.8 game score
games since: 2.5, 4.3, 1.2, 2.7, 1.3
Interesting.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
looks like he needs one of these:
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 2, 2010 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Someone get a hold of him in Lawrence
and let him know we may have solved the problem!
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
One way to look further into Cole's apparent "better play" in up-tempo games
would be to look at each individual plus/minus category (not suggesting you do this—it might be a ton of work). Maybe up-tempo games have more fouls (stops the clock) and FT, so he gets easy rebounds. Maybe Cole doesn’t foul as much b/c there are more fast breaks. But what I’m getting at is maybe a certain stat stands out as being strangely high or low in up/down-tempo games.
Maybe it’s not that hard, if you just plot each tempo-free stat against # of possessions.
Zapp Brannigan/Dayton Moore quote of the day: "[my most important sabermetric stats are] runs scored and runs driven in"
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 1, 2010 12:45 PM CST reply actions
Kind of the same thing I was wondering.
I’m working on something else right now but might get to that in the future.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
Since KGRTC was the only one that actually guessed on the lines,
Green= Sherron
Blue= Taylor
Red= Morningstar
Orange= Reed
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball. I’ll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.
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