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Your Opinion on Turner Gill and the Jayhawk Football Program


About three weeks ago, Texas A&M rolled Kansas 45-10 in Lawrence, despite some hope early on in the game.  In that same game, Jordan Webb and Kale Pick were both injured, beginning the Quinn Mecham era of Jayhawk football.  At this point, pretty much all of Jayhawk nation was off the bandwagon.  We'd been outscored 159-24 in our first three conference games, compounded by our season-opening loss to perennial football force North Dakota State.  Most KU-related football discussion centered around how long it would take for Turner Gill to be fired.

Three weeks later things look, at the very least, a little different.  More after the jump.

Star-divide

The next week Kansas dominated the line of scrimmage, if not the scoreboard, in the first half against Iowa State.  The defense gave way in the second half and the game ended up a 28-16 loss, but for the first time in a month, the football team had shown signs of life, if only for a half.  Next time out looked like another rout at the hands of struggling Colorado, but a historic 4th quarter comeback gave us the first conference win of the Gill era in exciting fashion.  This brings us to last night, where the Jayhawk defense went up to Lincoln and frustrated the Nebraska running attack, limiting them to 20 points and a deficit that was half what Vegas predicted.

Obviously, we're still 3-7.  We've still been dominated by three middle-of-the-pack football teams.  We still lost to some college up near Canada.  But even the most pessimistic KU fans would have to admit that there have been some signs of life over the past three weeks.  If nothing else, just a little bit of progress.

I'm interested to know two things: 1) How does everyone feel about the direction of the football program under Turner Gill right now? and 2) How does that compare with how you felt three weeks ago?

For me, I'm cautiously optimistic that this hire was not a disaster.  Not necessarily optimistic that Gill will lead us to any 12-1 seasons, but hopeful that he's not Terry Allen 2.  It looks like recruiting should at least stay at the level it has been (though obviously it's way too early to say for sure), and the team on the field now is starting to respond and play some good football (albeit not quite consistently).  Compared to three weeks ago, this is a slight improvement.  If nothing else I now feel like the staff looks slightly less "in over their heads" when it comes to gameplanning and adjusting, and I feel like a competitive effort is now to be expected when we take the field, rather than rolling over at the first sign of distress.

Thoughts?

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I think I'm on par with how you feel

Gill may not lead us to a Big 12 title but I think he has the possibility to make us a consistently decent team (compared to Mangino’s outstanding success in one season while the rest were mediocre or downright horrendous).

I think the shock for everyone was that they didn’t expect us to fall so far off the map after Reesing, Briscoe and Meier left. Last season may not have been good but we at least had them to provide fodder for some highlight reels. We really did need to do some rebuilding and repairing after the last administration.

This season may be lost but if we can improve every season after, I’ll be patient and hopeful.

Oh my dear lord...this is RETARDED boss...

by tequilaprophet on Nov 14, 2010 2:54 PM CST reply actions  

My thoughts:

1) We don’t have a quarterback. We were blessed the last four years with Reesing, to the point where I think we forgot how rare and important effective ones are. Even if everything else was clicking, the lack of a QB that can drive the team down the field is just killer. About the best you can do without a great leader of your offense at that position is what KState has done this year, IMO. Even programs that are loaded with talent struggle without one— just look at Texas and Florida. Conversely, can you name a truly great college QB that plays for a terrible team right now? I certainly can’t. Realistically, there’s only so far any coach can take this program without either developing one of the QBs we have, or recruiting someone else

2) I will give credit to the staff for finding a way to get Toben on the field and contributing. We’ll never know what his rushing stats would have looked like this year compared to Sims, but at least he’s out there instead of just pouting on the sidelines or transferring. I have to wonder, however, why the staff wasn’t able to figure this out until midseason. Who knows where Toben would be right now if he had been working as a DE all summer and fall.

3) It’s been nice to go an extended period without hearing about off-the-field problems with the football team. I’m sick of hearing or talking about Gill’s rules, but maybe they’re having a good effect.

4) While I do feel like the team has quit in some games when the score has gotten out of hand, I don’t see signs of quitting completely. Every week they seem to come back and at least start the game out with good effort and a positive outlook.

5) I wish it would hurry up and be next season already so that we can start to better evaluate the direction the program is heading. My hope is that we’ll at least be in bowl contention longer than we were this year.

by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Nov 14, 2010 3:02 PM CST reply actions  

totally agree with all of these

I’m excited to see where the program is going. There’s no doubt that both of our lines are horrible, and having tons of line recruits coming in will help.

Hopefully we just keep recruiting well and go from there. Getting back to a BCS game isn’t going to happen overnight.

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by fetch9 on Nov 14, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Since you're on campus-

how’s the feel there about the football team? Are they forgotten with hoops starting now?

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 14, 2010 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

well the law school is pretty far removed from the rest of campus

but I haven’t heard any football talk, except from one of my friends who is a Nebraska fan. Though to be fair I don’t hear a lot of basketball talk either.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
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by fetch9 on Nov 14, 2010 7:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I got like two trillion friends in that Law School...

We should chat so I can name drop

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 14, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

done and done

maybe you know some hotties as well?

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
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by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I know mostly doods

But I might know a few lose women

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions  

are they related to win women?

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 9:38 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

You're an asshole

I’ve been making an e-mail campaign in Spanish all morning, I can’t speaka english no mo mane

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

also

feel free to introduce me to these ladies.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Whenever I'm in town I tailgate all afternoon

At a house with a lot of girls, on Ohio street. That way my fiance has people to talk to while I get my swag on. Come by sometime, we’ve always got some pong games going, shotgunning, and other things I should have outgrown 3 years ago.

Shit, last time I was in town I fought someone. Endless entertainment

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

done and done

Breaking news: the ladies in law school aren’t much to look at.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't agree at all with this.

While perhaps a touch below the average sorority girl, I think law school girls are still well above-average campus-wide.

But then again, I’m already married, so take that for what it’s worth.

When is Late Night?

by Bensa on Nov 15, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Buddy of mine that was married a year and a half ago

bird dogs the hell out of girls anytime we’re out in a crowd.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 15, 2010 11:00 AM CST up reply actions  

really?

you must see different girls than I do.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

This is hilarious. Bet the lady loved that
Shit, last time I was in town I fought someone

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 15, 2010 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

She was not pleased

Especially since we took engagement pictures yesterday, and my knuckles are still a bruised and a shattered, to quote the Godfather

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Sounds like lawyers are pretty uneducated in the sports world.

[glares at fetch and bensa]

www.oreadboomkings.fantake.com

by Triston27 on Nov 14, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

you could not be more correct

you should hear the sports conversations I have to listen to

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
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by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 8:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I'll agree with fetch on this point

I’ve got a few sports-aware friends here, but largely, the conversations are entirely superficial, and any attempts to get much deeper are met with blank stares seeming to question why I’m still talking.

Then again, that could describe most of life, not just law school.

When is Late Night?

by Bensa on Nov 15, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Thats because you all are dorks

Except the people that are my buddies. You know them. They’ll talk sports with ya

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

even the people that try to talk sports

are iffy. I have one guy in one of my classes who talks about football a lot, but then he said he starts Brett Favre in fantasy.

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe he is in a league with 12,465,987 people

Like we are

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

When is Late Night?

by Bensa on Nov 15, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

That league is getting tight again this year.

Frinking denver hosed me by not updating his roster. As a result, one of my division rivals got a win over Denver since Denver’s team only posted 19 freaking points…

Is that seat getting a little warm, Mr. Gill?

by labbadabba on Nov 15, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

I have no idea what kind of strategy to use in that league.

Right now it’s the close my eyes and throw darts hoping something works out.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 15, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

savvy waiver wire

Before a player that would get you 6-7 points a game would ride the pine for the year now you have to research and seek those guys out. I love that.

Is that seat getting a little warm, Mr. Gill?

by labbadabba on Nov 15, 2010 12:39 PM CST up reply actions  

whoops...sorry...

blame Canada, or Nebraska.. I didn’t have a computer all weekend.

Questions, Comments? email me at denverjhawk@hotmail.com
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by Owen on Nov 15, 2010 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I saw that

Denver had like 20 points, and he left like 60 on his bench between Orton and Gore. Major LOLs.

I’m finally getting a win this week after three strait close losses. Feels good, but I’m too far back to make noise I’m afraid

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe a tad more hopeful

the effort the last three weeks has been good to very good…since it’s pretty much impossible to get rid of the guy anyway (thanks again, lew), all we can really do is hope that recruiting pays off and we get to 6-7 wins a year with turner.

this conference, with the full round-robin schedule, is going to be BRUTAL year in and year out now, especially considering that we lose a non-con gimme every year…assuming we go 3-0 in the noncon every year, we’ve still got to find three wins in conference to get bowl-eligible, and that is going to be one difficult task IMO…there are no more patsies in this league.

you can pretty much figure that OU, UT, OSU and maybe aTm are pretty much guaranteed losses every year…Baylor is on the rise, Old Balls is still coaching at KSU, Mizzou is up and running, and ISU has proven to be a tough out…really the only team I can see going downhill is TT…so, unless parity suddenly takes hold, where are our three (or four) wins going to come from?

BOOM YOSTED!

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Nov 14, 2010 9:33 PM CST reply actions  

Thats the problem with the new conference

Since we are losing two teams from the North, we are pretty much joining the South. Hopefully after Gtech this next year, we schedule two absolute gimmes and a third we should almost always win, just maybe not by a rediculous score (like a MAC team, or a Duke, etc). Then we will absolutely have to win at least two from KSU, ISU and MU, then try to steal one or two from the south. Its gonna be rough.

The rough part in the end is losing Colorado. Our days of beating NU are clearly past us, but Colorado (save for the bullshit game last year we got hosed on) gave us a league win every year since 2006. Hawkins was huge for this program

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 14, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the long-term plan will have to look something like this:

1) Go 3-0 every year in non-con. With as tough as our league will be, I don’t care if all three are cupcakes.

2) Out-recruit KState, Iowa State, and Baylor.

3) Win home games against Texas Tech, aTm, and Okie Lite; play them tough on the road

4) Give UT/OU a scare at home or on the road

5) Beat Misery.

That formula would get the Jayhawks to 8 wins a season and a top 25 ranking, on average. Every step would be extremely difficult to accomplish. Even the first step may be impossible, unless those coaches head for greener pastures (literally, in one case).

by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Nov 14, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Just don't think it'll be enough

The sad reality with the new Big 12 is that the best we will ever do is about 6-6. Win all 3 non-con and maybe steal 3 Big 12 games. OU, Texas? No. TAMU, Tech, Baylor? Maybe we can win one of these three. KSU, ISU, MU? I think we can win two at best.

Don’t get me wrong, right meow I’d take 6-6 and respectability in a heart beat. Its just sad that thats now our ceiling after the glory days of 2007 and 2008

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Nah, there's always going to be an opening every couple of years.

Look at the south schools now, Texas is bad. Baylor’s decent to good but far from a machine. A&M still has Sherman as their coach. Tech’s as up and down as it gets, though they seem to be more down than up.

The key is getting enough athletes in the program so we can take advantage of those opportunities.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 15, 2010 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm not going to disagree with you on that

I just feel like we have so far to go, yanmean? Our only league win this year will be the league’s wipping boy that we almost always beat, who is leaving the conference. I mean, we didn’t just lose to teams, we got shredded. We could make 30 point turnarounds against KSU, Baylor and TAMU and it still wouldn’t have been enough this year.

Now I know this snowball, and it did in them games, but point is, we have a long way to go. Just kind of get that feeling that maybe we’ve dug ourselves too much of a hole.

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Was it a hole?

Or a grave?

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Nov 15, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Right now

I’d say its a hole…although its six feet deep and COULD (emphasis could) fit a coffin

You smell what I’m stepping in?

Shit happens when you win championships

by Andrew Clark on Nov 15, 2010 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

3-7 in our first ten games after Reesing, Meier, Briscoe et al is “digging our own grave?” Good God man, did someone kill your puppy?

by PenguinHawk on Nov 15, 2010 12:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Did you watch the Baylor, KSU or A&M games

at all?

We’re not just losing. We’re getting destroyed.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Nov 15, 2010 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

other than the really good programs

there is variance all the time.

Case in point: a few years ago Stanford got pasted by Washington, Washington State and Arizona State. Now look at them.

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by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Washington State pasted someone?

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 15, 2010 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

that's what I said

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
College Hockey!

by fetch9 on Nov 15, 2010 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

All good points.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 15, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions  

despite sharing many of Rivet's feelings

I still like you’re saying here. rec’d

Yea ≠ Yeah

by labbadabba on Nov 15, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm definitely not ignoring the positives.

But Colorado and the officials giving us a W does not off-set getting destroyed by frickin Baylor, setting numerous Baylor records in the progress.

Our victory over GT does not offset having two weeks to prepare for KSU and then letting them destroy us at home for the 2nd worse ass-kicking in the very long history of KU vs KSU in Lawrence.

Not even close.

Yeah we did what we were supposed to do to very bad NMSU team. But we’re also supposed to fight like hell at home during homecoming games. And instead we bent over, grabbed our ankles and let A&M do whatever the hell they felt like.

And then there is NDSU, an FCS school and the confused look on our coaches faces throughout that game.

The mere fact that you’re celebrating (?) the fact we kept a road game against a Top 10 team within a half of a spread as a positive is all I need to know. I remember doing the same thing during the Allen days.

This isn’t self-pity. This definitely isn’t Gill hatred. It’s simply being objective. Again, for the 1000th time….I poured my heart and soul into the KU football program all through the Mason years, the dark years (aka Allen years), and the building years for Mangino. I used to freebase the crimson koolaid. I’m DONE doing that. It’s simply not worth it.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Nov 15, 2010 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm definitely not questioning your fanhood

and you make solid points, but I already said, the good does not outweigh the bad this season. I guess I feel like by focusing on the negative you aren’t being objective, you’re letting your disappointment stop you from seeing anything else. I feel like the objective viewpoint would be what I’m saying, namely “yeah, the season has sucked, but we’ve seen some glimpses of hope the past few weeks.”

by PenguinHawk on Nov 15, 2010 3:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Fair enough

Sure there have been glimpses of hope the past few weeks. But I don’t think you can objectively judge a program on the past few weeks. You have to take the entire season into account and the good has been way more than overshadowed by the bad as you’ve already pointed out.

That’s not disappointment not letting me see anything else. It simply is what it is – a bad football program paid for with a ton of money.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Nov 15, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

One of the coaches is going to turn into a cow?
head for greener pastures (literally, in one case).

;)

The only people who really know where [the edge] is are the ones who have gone over it.

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 15, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Bill Snyder is so old...

How old is he?

He is so old that when he was in school there was no history class.

www.instantrimshot.com

by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Nov 17, 2010 2:54 AM CST up reply actions  

"there are no more patsies in this league."

When you can’t identify the patsie in the league that means YOUR the patsie.

build a damn football program, beat some ass, and get on tv more.

by Rivethead on Nov 15, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

great reference

i love me some Rounders…

"C.J.: They sent me two turkeys. The most photo-friendly of the two gets a Presidential pardon and a full life at a children's zoo. The runner-up gets eaten.
Bartlet: If the Oscars were like that, I'd watch." - The West Wing, 'Shibboleth'

by scouted on Nov 15, 2010 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

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