Did Mangino Leave the Cupboard Bare?

I’ve got some thoughts myself but I’m going to hold off and digest a little of what others have to say first. Really good fanpost though and appreciate the effort.

THE absolute biggest difference in terms of the talent on our team is the lines. Our last couple recruiting classes have seen us stock up too much on DBs, WRs and RBs while ignoring the trenches. As a result, now we have 10 running backs and WRs but no one to block for them. When we were good we had developed a very solid offensive and defensive line, with a few difference makers on both sides (Collins, Rodriguez, McClinton for example) surrounded by very servicable guys. Now we have no one. Both lines absolutely suck. And if your weakest points are on OL and DL – well, you are already in trouble. As critical as I have been of Gill, I do appreciate him going out and finding 20 OL signatures because that is what we need. In the end Mangino failed to both recruit and develop average to above average lineman the past couple years (and LB) and thats that.

Really, a lot coaches generally fall into two categories: Guys who get decent recruits but develop them and build them up (diamonds in the rough as you mentioned) and guys who can bring in the difference maker recruits and win on talent.

Mangino was part of this first group. He constantly got 2 and 3 star recruits and developed them into good players and/or stars. Snyder at KSU is like this too. The cats recruiting classes lately won’t blow you away, but he develops players and fits them into his system.

Now GIll looks more like the second type. I’m starting to think he won at Buffalo that year simply because he infused the program with talent. Which made me excited about him coming to KU, I thought he might bring in some guys to take us to the top. I don’t think he can develop the 2 and 3 star guys as well as Mangino (one of the best) so he needs to get solid depth and playmakers. And not just a few guys. Remember Ron Prince? He got heralded recruits like Josh Freeman and never stocked up on line talent as well. As a result he never beat KU (and got murdered in his last game against us) and was out quick.

What makes me nervous is that Gill isn’t roping in any program changing talent yet. He may, but if he brings in the talent level Mangino did, then we are in trouble because few are as good as the fat man as developing the 2 and 3 star guys.

It is all about developing talent and depth at line and keeping a system in place where guys can come in, develop and then contribute as juniors and seniors. Its where our problems start and until properly addressed, we will fail to contend.

’06 class which could have been our redshirt senior group.has had very little success in terms of player development. Reesing and Sharp would certainly be considered a success but obviously they played from day one.

The only ones left from that group are:
Capra – Average HS LB trying to play guard, he’s done well….but
Bradyley Dedeaux, Dakota Lewis and Tetravian Ingram – never developed
Phillip Strozier – decent role player
Olaitan Oguntodu – wasted career, should have been playing much earlier.

Big losses in this group
Max Onyegbule – screwed on an extra year of eligibility
Jamal Greene – changes the d-line, but obviously he made some poor choices
Ian Wolfe, Carl Wilson, John White, Anthony Webb, Jason Thompson, Xavier Rambo, John Marshall, D’Marcus Lang and Blake Beutel all left at one point or another and all fell well short of expectations. These were classic Mangino guys but they didn’t succeed and that left this class a total bust if it wasn’t for a guy like Reesing.

2007

This is your senior and rs junior group and for a program like ours you’d hope this could provide your corps.

Gone for good reasons:
Dezmon Briscoe – great pickup no doubt about it.

Injured:
Jeff Spikes – If Spikes is around, I’m guessing Thorson slides inside where his broken foot isn’t causing him as much grief
Rell Lewis – Gives us a decent backup as it’s clear that Sands and Quigley are both hurt and/or not performing.

Gone for other reasons:
Carmen Boyd Anderson – He was supposed to be James Sims before we had James Sims

Playing:
Johnathan Wilson – Not a #1 receiver, nothing against him…he just isn’t it. Best year for him he was the #3.
AJ Steward – Somethings missing here he should be a factor. Injured now but he could have been used better.
Justin Springer – He is what he is, very good against the run, not the best in pass coverage.
Ryan Murphy – This is another one you’d expect to pan out but it just hasn’t, great athlete but can’t get on the field.
Jake Laptad – Like Springer, he is what he is…a strong side end but not a pass rusher of any kind.
Richard Johnson Jr – He’s done pretty well and I’d say he’s overachieved over his career.
Jeremiah Hatch – The only non-converted player on the o-line playing his natural position. He’s done well.
Chris Harris – in an ideal world Harris is our Nickel corner/safety.
Patrick Dorsey – undersized
Anthony Davis – bust
Isiah Barfield – Should have been at corner from day one. He has the athleticism for it, but has been moved several times.

Decent group, but not a very good foundation for what you’d hope would be the teams strength.

2008

Last year I’m going to look at because I still contend that Kansas would be at it’s best when groups from the top three classes are making the major contributions.

Gone:
Jocques Crawford – could have played this year, big mess.
Ben Leuken – another guy that makes this o-line much better.
Nick Plato – Not sure he wanted to play football
Sean Ransburg – Good athlete but just had some bad luck.

Injured/out:
DJ Marshall – Tough story glad he’s healthy, but as a defensive end this was certainly a position of need that didn’t work out.

Playing:
Tim Biere – good contributor, I’ll take Biere as a good pickup.
Greg Brown – has had struggles, but he’s an athlete. Would have been real nice to have him at CB and Harris at Nickel/S
Rod Harris – pretty good rapper but maybe not the best receiver
Tanner Hawkinson – seems like he might still be a year away.
Trevor Marrongelli – I was high on him headed into the year, but something seems to be missing right now.
Darius Parish – if he wants to be here…he can be big for the d-line
Daymond Patterson – We see what he can do, he’s good, but it feels like Okie State has 8 Pattersons.
Kale Pick – Only one QB can play so no fault here
Corrigan Powell – disappearing act
Josh Richardson – risk that didn’t pan out
Lubbock Smith – looked damn good last year but Keeston Terry is pushing for the minutes.
John Williams – Strong but seems slow at DT.
Duane Zlatnik – like Hawk he might just be a year away.

Out of those three years it feels like there have been a good amount of defections, misses and guys still a step or two away. Each year looks to have gradual improvement. Problem is there just isn’t enough depth and some of the guys that are still around just don’t represent top level talent in the Big 12.

Since game one I’ve felt that this would be a season to throw out the window and the real judgment of this staff begins next season. I think after next season, we’ll really start to know more in what we have in Coach Gill and even more if Mangino capitalized on the Orange Bowl year in recruiting.

If alot of the top rated guys that we got in 2008 and 2009 aren’t seeing the field and making contributions then he truly missed the boat. You can talk about coaching changes and changes in philosophy all you want too but the fact is that talent always wins out. And if we’ve got any, it will show itself eventually.

right now the schemes suck. It’s going to take Alabama level talent to cover that up.

really happens inside the recruiting process, but I find it hard to believe that Gill doesn’t know that a couple of 55-7 games leaves you finishing in second place with a lot of commits. And second place on a committment is no better than 100th, you lose.
It’s possible that age and cynicism have overtaken me, but what does Gill tell a 17-18 year old kid that will make him believe that this is going to get substantially better soon? I guess my point is that I believe Gill would have signed with Nebraska if Don Fambrough had been the coach there and Tom Osborne had been the coach at Kansas. What can he do to change that in the future?

Gill: “Son this is why we need you at Kansas. We feel you will have a realistic shot at immediate playing time with your skills.”

Kid: “The sooner I get on the field, the sooner the NFL scouts will see what I can do”

Gill: “That’s true, and we have a coaching staff that can help refine your raw skills and really showcase them to the scouts”

Or something like that…….

Christian French eliminated us from his choices. Down to MU, NU, Iowa, ND, A&M and Oregon. No surprise that we aren’t included in that group.