First Thoughts: Kansas State Wildcats
The Kansas Jayhawks have already outplayed and embarrassed one bitter rival this week. With Saturday evening comes the chance to do the same to our friends from the west this time. In beating Missouri Monday night, the Jayhawks looked every bit the team that was ranked preseason number one and overwhelmingly picked to make a run to the Final Four. Head coach Bill Self couldn't have been happier with the way his players played defense. The Tigers shot a paltry 27.9 percent for the game. (The new streak of opponents held under 50 percent shooting now stands at two, just in case you were wondering.)
The Allen Fieldhouse faithful were at their very best and provided a raucous, hostile environment for the visitors. However, this time the roles will be reversed when the Jayhawks travel to Manhattan to take on Frank Martin's Kansas State squad. The Wildcats are coming off of a somewhat unexpected road victory Tuesday night at Baylor. It can be imagined the sort of environment Self's team will encounter Saturday. As long as they avoid tossed chickens and flying bottles onto the court, the trip to Manhattan has the possible makings of yet another successful business trip on the road.
Everybody remembers the scene just two short years ago, (the year we won the National Championship) when the historic streak of 24 straight victories inside Bramlage Coliseum "The Octagon of Doom" was snapped. At that time, though, if I do remember correctly, Kansas State had a fairly talented freshman by the name of Michael Bealsey and a talented sidekick in Bill Walker. Those two won't be around this time when the Jayhawks come calling. Things might be just a bit tougher for the upstart program, on the verge of true national relevance for the first time in decades.
Backcourt Comparison
Kansas - Sherron Collins, Brady Morningstar, Xavier Henry, Tyshawn Taylor, Tyrel Reed and Elijah Johnson
Kansas State - Jacob Pullen, Denis Clemente, Dominique Sutton, Rodney McGruder, Martavious Irving and Chris Merriewether
| Kansas | Kansas St. | |
| PPG | 49.8 | 50.7 |
| RPG | 14.1 | 16.4 |
| SPG | 6.5 | 4.9 |
Frontcourt Comparison
Kansas - Cole Aldrich, Marcus Morris, Markieff Morris, Thomas Robinson and Jeff Withey
Kansas State - Curtis Kelly, Jamar Samuels, Luis Colon, Jordan Henriguez-Roberts and Wally Judge.
| Kansas | Kansas St. | |
| PPG | 36.3 | 31.6 |
| RPG | 26.5 | 21.2 |
| BPG | 6.0 | 4.9 |
As obvious as it sounds, avoiding turnovers (unlike Monday night) will be the highest of priorities for Collins and company. Kansas State forces 17.7 turnovers per game, four higher than the Jayhawks average at 13.1 per. While only accounting for 4.9 of those turnovers as steals, it would seem that they do more to put their opponents in a position to make a mistake. (i.e. speeding them up offensively) Also, allowing our bigs to handle their own man in the post and not doubling down with a guard every time the ball goes inside, thus leaving Pullen or Clemente wide open for three would be a solid base plan on defense. Clemente has been awful shooting of late, but we all know that the cure for that is one game against a sagging Kansas perimeter defense and you're on your way to 30 points a game the rest of the year. Pullen had a rough two game stretch prior to the Baylor game, (2-15 shooting each game) in which he shot 63 percent and six-of-seven from three. Getting corrected before facing Kansas could make things even worse (or better - depending on which side of the rivalry you stand) for the Jayhawks. That is my biggest fear heading into this game.
If Jacob Pullen goes off for 30+ points, the Wildcats will win; if not, they will have trouble. Honestly, that is the only way that I can see Kansas State winning on Saturday. As good as there bigs are, Kansas' are still better. They do, however, have equal depth to that of the Jayhawks. Each frontline can confortably go five deep, with each team boasting a wing physical enough to play the four if either team desired to go small. Depth with size is a key for not only Kansas State, but any team that plays them - with as often as fouls are called in their games. (23.6 FPG committed, 26.2 FPG drawn. Third and first in the nation, respectively.) Now, I'm not saying that Kansas State is a rough and dirty playing team, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it's a duck. They play a physical style of basketball, both inside and out, and don't let you have anything for free. You have to earn your rebounds and baskets against them. Seems very fitting for a Frank Martin-coached team, huh?
Record: 17-3 (4-2)
Best Win(s): Xavier, @UNLV, @Alabama, Texas, @Baylor
Worst Loss(es): Oklahoma State
Informative Kansas State Links
Player rotation from their Yahoo! team page:
Player Rotation: Usual Starters—F Dominique Sutton, F Curtis Kelly, C Luis Colon, G Jacob Pullen, G Denis Clemente. Key Subs—F Jamar Samuels, G Rodney McGruder, F Wally Judge, G Martavius Irving.
| Kansas | Kansas St. | |
| Missouri | vs. W, 84-65 | @ L, 68-74 |
| Baylor | vs. W, 81-75 | @ W, 76-74 |
Random Stat Musings About Kansas State
- First nationally in free throws made and attempted. Opponents are second and third, respectively. It seems as if the Wildcats play just chippy enough to anger opponents and draw frustration fouls? Weird correlation, considering that they foul so incredibly much, but somehow manage to draw more than they commit.
- Third nationally in offensive rebounds per game. They rebound 42.4 percent of their misses, compared to just 38.9 percent for the Jayhawks, good for a very respectable 27th nationally.
- Only eight disqualifications on the season. They must really spread those fouls out well and let everybody have their turn to wrestle. Again, though, their opponents are higher, with 18 DQ's. Denis Clemente must be getting away with a bunch more head slaps and aggrevating opponents.
A look at KC's Three Keys to victory tomorrow morning...
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Comments
Mabe I'm out of line here, but...
I can only assume you guys will be rooting for the Cats on Saturday right? I mean look what happened the last time you guys lost in Manhattan! Surely you’ll take this loss for a National Championship right?
A Wildcat win adds another signature win for us – probably bumping us up to a 2 seed if everything else goes according to plan. Having three teams in the conference having a 2 seed? Sounds like a good way to represent the Big 12. You guys don’t want to be selfish now, do you?
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
We still get a one seed if we lose in Manhattan
Which we’ve got a 33% chance of doing according to God (Ken Pomeroy, actually). Pretty good odds actually, although I’d say its probably a little closer to a toss-up than that.
As for Jake Pullen needing to go off – I’d agree, but they beat Texas without great performances from Pullen or Clemente, and I tend to think that if they beat us it’ll be the same way they beat Texas: Use Kelly and Samuels to get Cole in foul trouble, then take their shots at the Morris twins. Say that we have a frontcourt advantage all you want, but Kelly and Samuels greatly outplayed James and Pittman, so I wouldn’t be so confident. This is definitely, in my mind, a game that comes down to how Sherron does in the last 5 minutes. Distributing or scoring, he has to have his A game for us to get a win in probably the 2nd best homecourt in the Big XII.
by 2.1 seconds left on Jan 28, 2010 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
I think the Jayhawks need a great game out of McMorris (or Kieff, just less likely) more than Sherron.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
I'd trade a national title for one loss any day of the week...
I do think a 1 seed wouldn’t be out of the question if Kansas lose in Manhattan either. K-State is a good team top 15…teetering on top 10. Minus the OSU hiccup it was top 10 no questions asked. Probably a silly way to look at things but the basketball rankings are pretty silly I suppose.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
*sorry that should have read "at least 3 - 2 seeds
I still fully expect KU to grab a 1 seed, but I was referring to that You, Us, and Texas could all grab at “least” 3 – 2 seeds.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
gotcha...makes sense...
and I’d be okay with that…I just don’t want you or Texas in our bracket. I hate playing conference opponents in the tourney. Makes for serious nerves on my part.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Well the last time we were in an elite 8 together......
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
I get nervous whoever is in our bracket.
Tom Brady is Sidney Crosby, except Tom Brady has felt the touch of a woman, and has his own house.
Man, Bill Walker really did end up sucking, didn’t he? Is he even still in the NBA? Another cautionary tale about prep ratings, for sure. He somehow rode Mayo and Beasley’s coattails to a Top 10 pick.
In the end, the only thing that guy will be remembered for is peeing into a towel in front of 15,000 of his closest friends.
What a waste.
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 1:03 PM CST reply actions
He's played in 6 games this year.
Given that he’s getting first round money, that really doesn’t even count. He’s only around because they have to pay him anyways.
Good luck in Europe, Bill!
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
he was in the NBDL until Dec. 29, according to the page. Just goes to show that the ability to produce crowd-pleasing thunder-dunks doesn’t necessarily transform a 6’6" kid with limited shooting range into an NBA-caliber player. Reminds me of (dare I say it???) Kenny Gregory.
Operation 39-1 is a go. Proceed to target.
I believe
he injured his knee again last year. So his knees are pretty much shot.
by WillieWannabe on Jan 28, 2010 1:34 PM CST up reply actions
KGRTC
Is a baller in Europe. He can shoot now and everything. Also, nobody gave him a top ten pick in the league, so the expectations were never as high.
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 9:10 PM CST up reply actions
Correction
PROJECTED to be a top ten pick
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
Might want to get your facts straight.
Bill Walker was drafted in the SECOND round #47 by the Wizards (then traded to the Celtics right after).
He was Not a top 10 pick. He did NOT receive 1st round money.
And as WillieWannabe states below, he was injured to start the season. From NBA.com
Bill Walker: Recalled from D-League
Update: Walker, who had been playing for the Maine Red Claws of the NBA D-League following his recovery from a torn meniscus in his right knee, has been recalled to Boston, the Boston Globe reports.
Analysis: Walker missed most of training camp and the start of the season because of the injury. He is expected to make the trip with the team for Friday’s game in Orlando, and provides depth at small forward with Paul Pierce (knee) expected to miss two weeks. In nine games with the Red Claws, Walker averaged 17.4 points and 6.4 rebounds. :
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
Fine, a PROJECTED top ten pick coming out of high school. Better? And he’s only getting 3 minutes a game since he’s been back (and won’t be getting any tonight against the Magic), despite being on a team that is desperate for bench production right now.
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 9:17 PM CST up reply actions
Jury is still out.
I’m not ready to give up on Bill Walker as a player. As has been pointed out, he has been hurt. If he were on the right team and could get some minutes, he’d be pretty serviceable. And that’d be a steal by NBA standards considering he’s a 2nd-rounder.
Yadda yadda yadda. The same excuses are made about every player at the end of the bench or in the D-League. Walker, just like Simien, is an NBA dud. Luckily for Wayne, he actually had a successful college career at least, and has his degree.
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
I stopped reading when you called it the octagon of doom. That’s garbage. They’ve won one time there in the last quarter century and it took two first round draft picks to do it. We went back to business last year. It’s not some crazy place to play. Until 2 years ago they wouldn’t even sell out for the game. Stop giving them so much credit. It pisses me off. Call it Bramlage or Allen Fieldhouse – West.
They are our absolute b*tch until the next 25 years proves anything differently.
/rant.
by SweedishHamma on Jan 28, 2010 1:08 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I've never really had any outright hatred for K-State.
I consider them a rival, sure, but they don’t make my blood boil. It’s probably because I have a brother who went to school there, and I actually think Manhattan is a neat little town.
I really enjoy Manhattan and have a lot of friends that went there.
It’s just all of the “Octagon of Doom” crap that got old real quick. Throw in the boo’s about every single call that doesn’t automatically go K-State’s way and it’s too much for me.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
look...
nobody is denying that we own these guys historically and I would definitely agree that the Octagon of doom is a bit much. Might have post tomorrow taking a jab at that even. What we are saying is that this years team presents a challenge and Saturday will be no cakewalk. Just giving credit where credit is due. The program is improved.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
No, they'll be awfully tough.
Especially if the refs let it get a little sloppy.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
I get that they are a good team. They’ve got some quality wins. They have some solid players. It’s going to be a tough game. I get all of that. The game is being played in Allen Fieldhouse – West on Saturday. That’s not a knock on their overall program, just that they have absolutely zero claim to anything but AFHW.
The Octagon of Doom? That implies that any guest walking onto the floor has no chance to win. It insinuates that they have a national recognized home court advantage. I’m sure it will be loud, but let’s not give their fans/stadium credit where it’s not due.
by SweedishHamma on Jan 28, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
again...I don't disagree with the Octagon of Doom...
being a bit of a stretch and pretty unoriginal at that. Still it’s not Allen Fieldhouse West the way I thought of it before. The reason I always felt it was AFHW was that Kansas fans used to fill the place up, snatch up tickets and make it a fairly comfortable environment. That doesn’t happen the same way anymore.
No they can’t claim a crazy home court advantage, but I guess my reasons for not calling it AFHW are different then your reasons so that’s where we differ. Where we don’t disagree is in your last two sentences. I’m with you on that.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
By your logic, Memorial Stadium is Snyder East
Since they beat us in lawrence for a lot of years consecutively and used to have as many if not more fans in our own stadium than we do. Although obviously thats different now and we have won 3 strait at home against them.
I do agree though that the Octagon of doom thing is pretty pathetic. Its stupid sounding and we have owned them pretty bad at home. Its kind of like their power towel thing they did a few years ago with the awesome 1982 inspired video that went with it.
by Andrew Clark on Jan 28, 2010 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
Sweedish -
Calm down, my man. I was being facetious in calling it the Octagon of Doom. Mocking them. I think it is the most childish, stupidest sounding name ever.
"Not to be cliché or anything, but I’m Jayhawk born and Jayhawk bred and when I die I’ll be Jayhawk dead." - Ovechwin
by Andy Edwards on Jan 28, 2010 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
Chill Hamm
Don’t get your meatballs all in a bunch! That was an attempt, although a very lousy one, at humor. He was not serious, it was a joke, get it!!??
What year did you graduate from KState?
What’s your degree in?
"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 28, 2010 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
12-year-olds can't go to college Kenny!
You know that. Unless he is a genius, which he obviously could be
by Andrew Clark on Jan 28, 2010 9:36 PM CST up reply actions
K-State Wildcats will stomp on KU this Saturday
This article was written by a KU homer, and although the statistical info is “technically” correct, it’s biased and one-sided, much like the rest of the article. Here are a few stats to bring a bit more balance to the numbers. K-State is the only school in the Big-12 that is 4-0 against top 25 ranked opponents, and three of those were on the road. So the road victory at Baylor was not “unexpected” and neither was the win over Texas. As a matter of fact, Vegas had the Longhorns as 1.5 point underdogs. By the way K-State is not an upstart program. They are in the top 25 all-time list for NCAA Tourney appearances, and although they have not been as successful as KU lately, they have always had a respectable basketball program. It’s one thing to not like K-State, but to have misleading stats, such as that ridiculous stat box on Frank Martin, is petty and wrong. KU is a great team on it’s own merit, they don’t need some two-bit homer to skew numbers so they look better, or their opponents look worse. They will have their work cut out for them on Saturday, so EXPECT a great K-State team and don’t be surprised by a KU loss. GO CATS!!
DENVER!
If you are really a KU homer and biased towards the Jayhawks, I think you owe it to your readers to disclose such information. THIS IS A RESPECTABLE WEBSITE.
by knayte on Jan 28, 2010 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
HA HA knayte!! This article was posted in CNNSI, that's why I read it in the first place.
Homer articles by no-name fans should not end up in CNNSI.
Take it easy rcchfku
You’re sounding like a newspaper commenter. Nobody likes that. Nobody.
And with your name, I don’t think anybody can really take you serious. Not even at BOTC.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
It happens...
I’m sure you’ll end up with a straggler or two from our side of the tracks coming your way. What can you do… : )
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Yup
It’s been pretty dead at BOTC the past few days so I’m taking my bordem out on this guy…
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
ha!!...isn't it about time...
for you guys to rev up the hate engine over there. You usually go all out this week. All I’ve really seen is the Sherron Collins, “Ain’t no seats in the butt” article. I’m just not feeling the hate like I’m used to : )
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Pan and TB are keeping real busy at work
so the amount of posts are down a bit. Besides it’s usually Pan who finds the ridiculous photos/ gifs up to start it up.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
fair enough...
I can live with that.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
eh...I'm not really interested in that...
I prefer it from the guys over at BOTC because I can at least have a reasonable discussion as well once the hate subsides.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
I agree with mystman
please don’t let this guy make you hate ksu more than you already do. Some people just look for a fight.
by WillieWannabe on Jan 28, 2010 5:08 PM CST up reply actions
oh I don't at all...
trust me, I respect all of you over at BOTC a great deal. Between you guys and the fellas over at Rock M Nation I actually enjoy a good debate/conversation with my rival.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Yeah, that was my bad.
I meant to put a smiley at the end. Looks to be a fun weekend. :-)
by WillieWannabe on Jan 28, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever dude
If you win you are 2-25 against us at home since early 80s. So even with pulling it off, you’re about 20 years premature for talking shit on us.
by Andrew Clark on Jan 28, 2010 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
Huh.
Let me see if I understand you. So the statistical information is correct, but it’s biased. Help me out here. Is “truth” biased? I understand you can skew statistics to prove a particular point even if it doesn’t tell the whole story…happens all the time. I’m not sure the writer, however, has presented anything other than generic, usable statistics to give the reader an idea of what to expect on Saturday. Maybe you would have preferred a Kenpom analysis (which also shows KU would be favored, btw).
Occasionally, however, an offended party may be more guilty of reading into something and projecting his or her own biases and prejudices (or victim-hood, as the case may be) than the writer is in his or her text. Then again, I’m not the writer. I just think accusing the author of being “biased,” “one-sided,” “petty,” “wrong,” or a “two-bit homer” is a bit strong and quite unwarranted.
And besides, this is a KU-leaning website, isn’t it?
Operation 39-1 is a go. Proceed to target.
by Bensa on Jan 28, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Well said Bensa...
I’m still struggling with the whole statistical info being technically correct yet biased.
Is that like saying, I know you are right but I don’t like what the FACTS are telling me.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
As they say in law school...
When the facts are on your side, argue the facts. When the law is on your side, argue the law. When neither the facts or the law are on your side, pound the table a lot.
Operation 39-1 is a go. Proceed to target.
KU leaning? No this website is like politics
no bias, all strait and narrow baby
by Andrew Clark on Jan 28, 2010 7:15 PM CST up reply actions
how is statistical info technically correct...
yet biased and one sided.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
Wait...
Are you using the fact that ksu was favored against Texas to emphasize your argument that it was not “unexpected”? Because if you are, you shouldn’t say the win @ Baylor wasn’t “unexpected”, as they were 3.5 dogs.
Also, maybe I took it wrong but I was reading the Frank Martin stat box as giving him props. Showing what he’s done compared to the average coach, in a considerably shorter time. Then again, looks like you were just looking to view it as a negative, no matter what it’s actually showing.
+1
As a K-State fan, I have to agree. None of those “technically accurate stats” are even remotely slamming K-State. The Frank Martin stats, like Triston said, are rather complimentary.
Surgeon General's Warning: K-State-Mizzou basketball may increase the risk of high blood pressure. Please consult your doctor prior to watching any of these games.
furthermore...
I think the stat box on Frank Martin actually paints him in a pretty good light. It shows he’s been fairly successful in a relatively short time. That doesn’t strike me as petty. Maybe it’s just something we look at with every opposing coach.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
looks like this had been covered several times...
by the time I finally hit “post”….great point by everyone.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
"technically" correct, but biased
You make that complaint, but then add, “K-State is the only school in the Big-12 that is 4-0 against top 25 ranked opponents.”
In case you can’t see the homeristic ignorance of the statement, you give no indication of the record of the other teams against top 25 ranked opponents. You also ignore the fact that you have 3 losses against teams not ranked in the top 25.
It would apear that this means that KU should worry because we aren’t mizzoo or ISU? Silly, silly kittycat.
You simply quote all the negative statistics, DUH!!
I thought KU fans were smarter than this, but i guess i was expecting too much!
If you're really itching that hard for a pissing match,
I’m sure you can find one on another blog somewhere. Get a grip, friend.
Operation 39-1 is a go. Proceed to target.
Nope were pretty much all idiots
And your team is a lot better than ours and you will probably destroy us saturday and go on to win it all. Congrats
by Andrew Clark on Jan 28, 2010 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
You want to see some negative stats for KSU?
How about you check out this:
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Those are true statistics with a factual basis...
but I find them biased, unfair and homerific at best!!!!! : )
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
I do wonder if I like it the plus/minus because it fits KU's style so well.
If I was K-State fan, I’m guessing I would have scrapped it a long time ago.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
That's like saying...
“I think I like wins because Kansas has so many of them. If I was a Kansas State fan, I might have scrapped that in the 90’s.”
It’s not the system that fits the +/- it’s the fact that our team fits the game of basketball.
52 Conference Championships!! Holy Hell...Good Luck with That!!
by Owen on Jan 28, 2010 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs






















