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KU vs Tennessee: Plus/Minus

Warden with the Plus/Minus from today's loss, tough one...plenty of questions worth asking.  - Denver

Ku_bkc_tenn_11_t640_medium

 

Well, that sucked.  More of the same from stuff that was seen against Cornell.  Stand around on offense and watch Sherron try to do everything.  Blah.  Here's a look at the game through the eyes of my Plus/Minus.  You'll notice that Cole once again turns in a great overall performance.  Can you believe he only got 5 shots?  I didn't get to see much of the game, but that number is too low.  Combined with the Morri and T-Rob, the bigs only took a total of 13 shots.  That number has to go up for this team to be successful.  Sherron and T2 combined for 31 shots, WAY TOO MANY.

Star-divide

 

 

STARTERS FGA3PAFTAREB AST STL BLK TO PF PTSPlus/Minus
Cole Aldrich, C 5 0 2 18 0 0 4 1 3 7 18
Xavier Henry, G 7 4 4 5 0 1 1 2 3 10 1
Marcus Morris, F 5 1 2 4 1 0 0 1 2 5 0
Markieff Morris, F 2 0 0 4 1 0 1 3 3 2 0
C.J. Henry, G 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 -1
Thomas Robinson, F 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 -1
Brady Morningstar, G 5 3 2 2 0 0 0 1 2 6 -2
Sherron Collins, G 20 10 7 4 5 0 0 4 3 22 -3
Tyshawn Taylor, G 11 4 4 1 3 2 0 4 3 13 -3
Tyrel Reed, G 5 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 3 -4
TOTALS 61 27 21 39 10 3 6 16 23 68 5
Tennessee                      
STARTERS FGA 3PtA FTA REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS Plus/Minus
Renaldo Woolridge, G-F 6 6 4 8 0 1 0 0 0 14 13
Bobby Maze, G 10 0 7 7 8 1 0 2 3 16 10
Josh Bone, G 2 2 0 1 2 0 0 0 1 3 3
Scotty Hopson, G 12 3 4 4 0 0 0 2 1 17 2
Steven Pearl, F 0 0 2 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 2
Wayne Chism, F-C 6 3 2 4 1 0 1 3 4 8 -1
Kenny Hall, F 7 0 2 5 0 0 1 0 3 4 -2
Skylar McBee, G 5 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 6 -2
J.P. Prince, G 6 0 8 0 2 4 0 0 5 8 -5
Totals 54 18 29 32 14 6 2 7 20 76 20

 

The same ugly picture from a slightly different perspective.  Two players in the positive and one of those is X at +1.  Predictions for the future:  the bigs take a lot more shots over the next two weeks.

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Cole's numbers.

+18. He had 18 rebounds. Other than that, he didn’t do much to affect his P/M rating. Everything else was a wash. I’m about to watch the game for the first time (I had to work, again) and break down Cole and how he is utilized. Should be interesting to see what I come up with.

lol can't have a CKC without KC - Nicholai Khabibulin (LN21)

by Andy Edwards on Jan 10, 2010 7:57 PM CST reply actions  

See if you can determine why he and the other bigs never got the ball.

I missed all of the 1st and a good part of the 2nd, so I’m not sure what happened. But anytime Aldrich has 5 shot attempts and only two free throws, it’s not going to be good.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

by Warden11 on Jan 10, 2010 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

EXACTLY what I'm looking at, actually.

Post coming (complete with PICK-SHERS!!!)

lol can't have a CKC without KC - Nicholai Khabibulin (LN21)

by Andy Edwards on Jan 10, 2010 8:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Cole had 5 shot attempts all game.

5. Shot. Attempts. That’s ridiculous. I don’t care if you have to completely throw out the playbook- find a way to get the guy the friggin ball in spots where he can be successful.

"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."

by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 10, 2010 8:42 PM CST reply actions  

Coach Self commented

that even when Cole got the ball close to the basket, such as a few rebounds (6 of 8 /KC?), that he was far too passive about taking a shot at the basket.

The only thing worse was the renewed infatuation with the bunnies by the bigs. I was originally thinking the student section needs to start tracking bunnies at the games, but maybe coach needs to do that, and then figure out some sort of “encouragement” for them to finish authoritatively.

Maybe have them do the big guy version of the 3 pt contest. Five racks of 5 BB’s around the hoop, and they have to dunk at least 20 of the 25 within 30 seconds or do it over again. One bunny drill for each missed or passed up bunny. Alright, give’m 50 seconds – 2 s/shot.

by dagger108 on Jan 12, 2010 3:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Wouldn't be a bad idea

I liked it a few years ago when Self made the players wear football pads and had them beat the tar out of each other to make them tougher. He should do that again with the bigs

by KU Grad 08 on Jan 12, 2010 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

another fave...

Was the preparation for the 2004 UAB tournament game. Self had the team play five on six in preparation for Mike Anderson’s swarming full-court defense.

It seems like something of that sort would be useful. If the boys spend considerable time in practice playing under-manned, it could make the games feel slower and easier.

by DCJayhawk0208 on Jan 12, 2010 11:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah that was pretty cool too

Gotta mix it up in practice, get creative. Thats man business

by KU Grad 08 on Jan 12, 2010 7:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I have a feeling

the ball is going to get dumped down into Cole a lot next game. Tenn. guarded the post well but there were tons of opportunities to get him the ball and they just didn’t for whatever reason

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog

by fetch9 on Jan 10, 2010 9:00 PM CST reply actions  

Gunslingers tax hit Sherron hard today...

closer game than you would think actually based on the plus/minus

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Jan 10, 2010 9:53 PM CST reply actions  

Question from a Mizzou fan (admittedly probably not welcome on a day like this, but here goes):

Do you guys have another true center besides Aldrich? I guess what I’m asking is, what’s the contingency plan if Aldrich gets into foul trouble early?

I ask because it certainly seemed like Aldrich didn’t get nearly the touches on the offensive end that I expected, and I wonder if that’s a planned thing from Self to ensure he doesn’t get any cheap offensive fouls.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Jan 10, 2010 10:45 PM CST reply actions  

Come back and check the FanPosts

in about an hour or so. I’ve got a lot coming on this.

lol can't have a CKC without KC - Nicholai Khabibulin (LN21)

by Andy Edwards on Jan 10, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Cool.

Will do. Many thanks.

What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze? Do they dream of mauling zebras, or Halle Berry in her Catwoman suit?

by ghtd36 on Jan 10, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Here you go.

lol can't have a CKC without KC - Nicholai Khabibulin (LN21)

by Andy Edwards on Jan 10, 2010 11:59 PM CST up reply actions  

realistically, there are not many true centers in all of college BB

I would guess there are more 4’s, such as Withey, MkMorris, Mizzoo’s 2008-09 frontline, …, than there are true 5’s.

How many teams have even 1 true center (UT, UK, …?)?

by dagger108 on Jan 12, 2010 3:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe it's just me...

…but is it finally time to start admitting that Self has a problem with rotation management? I’d take Self over any other coach right now, but watching him try to figure out a rotation is like watching him try to decipher hieroglyphics. The last three seasons went so well because even someone who hasn’t watched basketball before would be able to sort out the rotation. Take 07-08…three great big players (plus Cole as an emergency backup, who was alright, but raw)…four great small players (plus Stewart as an emergency backup, who was solid). No one else on that team was really worth putting in the lineup (Morningstar redshirting, freshman Reed, Case, etc), so it made the rotation incredibly simple. Having 14 legit D-1 players on a team is a serious problem for Self.

This current team reminds me of the 04-05 season. Preseason team to beat. Three excellent players (Miles, Simien, Langford – Sherron, Cole, X). One good role player (Moody – Brady). One solid sharpshooter off the bench (Lee – Reed). One incredibly hyped, inconsistent player that may or may not be crazy (Giddens – Ugh, take your pick between Tyshawn and Marcus). And after that? Oh yeah, that’s right…nothing. There were several great bench players on that 04-05 team, but their playing time was so scattered that there was no way they could get any real experience. One game Self would play the aforementioned six and throw in Robinson, Giles, and Jackson for a handful of minutes. The next game he wouldn’t play those three and instead go with Kaun, Galindo, and Hawkins. The entire season went like that, as if their playing time was being determined by roulette. When Langford got hurt down the stretch (Giddens was starting to play terribly at the end of the season…Miles, Moody, and Lee weren’t serious scoring options), Kansas was pretty much done because they didn’t have anyone that could fill in. 05-06 (with the horrific start) was the same until thankfully Downs transferred and Self finally realized that Vinson and Case shouldn’t be part of the rotation.

What I also want to ask is…where is the ‘DEEPEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY’ that we are constantly being told about? If there was one team to play high-tempo, 12-man rotation against…Tennessee was it (with a whopping total of 5 legit D-1 players). Tyshawn and the twins were awful for long periods of time, yet they didn’t get pulled. Where was EJ? T-Rob? Withey? CJ? Those are three highly touted five-star recruits and…well…CJ was highly touted by his dad, but he’s looked positively Teahan-esque in his garbage minutes. Halfway through the season, we don’t really know anything about those four besides the few minutes they play in garbage time…don’t know what they’ll look like in real game situations, don’t know how they’ll react, and they won’t have a chance to acclimate themselves for later in the season if Kansas may need them.

I’d like to see Self take one easy game (Nebraska or Colorado) and play those four a good chunk of minutes just so we can finally see what they’ll be like in a competitive game. CJ has looked really good and composed during his few minutes, but would he be the same in a close game? Even if they completely crap themselves, it’s no big deal…it’s one game, and we can remove them further rotation consideration. If they do well, then they get real game-time experience and there’s an actual option on the bench for the end of close games.

by DreamersProphecy on Jan 11, 2010 2:15 AM CST reply actions  

I'm not sure what it is about the rotation, but Self does seem to stick to a pretty rigid one.

I remember thinking the same thing back when Rush, Wright, and Chalmers were young players. Hopefully, it gets worked out as the season progresses.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.

by Warden11 on Jan 11, 2010 8:25 AM CST up reply actions  

To some extent it was even the case last year.

Coach talked about wanting to play Releford more minutes, but it rarely seemed to happen. It really makes me miss/appreciate Larry. That guys was an absolute master of the sub, especially in March/April of 1988.

by dagger108 on Jan 12, 2010 3:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Tyshawn Taylor

Is it just me or does Taylor seem to be getting worse? Maybe a Soph slump but he doesnt play D. He still passes the ball one handed, which according to reports Self has been all over him about. Doesnt shoot the 3 very well and cant find the open man or feed the post. Maybe iam just mad because of what happened today. But his play has just seemed horrible. I dont understand why he is still a starter? Maybe cause they dont view Reed or Morningstar as a starter but “C’mon Man”! Maybe he should concentrate a little more on practice then trying to fight the football team over women. And one last thing… He does not deserve to where Hinrich’s number 10. Atleast Sherron has earned Nick Collisons #4.

by GVBOY on Jan 11, 2010 4:02 AM CST reply actions  

It's not just you...

Tyshawn is struggling this year and with all those things you mention. I’m curious how he ends up considering all those problems minus the shooting are primarily effort pieces. Defense and crisp passing are things that someone who chooses to work hard can become better at. I’m still optimistic on Taylor, but I’m concerned his summer success might have gotten him a little too confident.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Jan 11, 2010 7:16 AM CST up reply actions  

also...

welcome to RCT GVBOY

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Jan 11, 2010 7:18 AM CST up reply actions  

I've noticed the same thing, GVBOY.

I can speak to the passing part, in particular feeding the post, and say that that is not (at least was not Sunday) only him and was a problem for all the guards. For all the glowing reports we were hearing on him from the U19 National Team and leading them to the world title, he has been rather underwhelming. One of two things has happened with him – he got full of himself or the style of play for the U19 was FAR different than BAMFHCBS’s and he’s having a very rough time readjusting.

Also, welcome and keep on coming back!!

lol can't have a CKC without KC - Nicholai Khabibulin (LN21)

by Andy Edwards on Jan 11, 2010 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

U19s

I think that system just fit his offensive game better than ours does. And a lot of players tend to play better defense when they’re getting their numbers on the offensive end. I watched Nova play the other day, and the announcers described Wright’s system by saying, basically, “give me the effort on the defensive end, and you can do whatever you want on offense.”

Self is obviously a lot more structured offensively. The question now is: Does Self keep giving Taylor the time to hope that he will adjust better to KU’s system, or does he start giving those minutes to other players to force the issue?

"Here are our top priorities: recruit, beat Missouri, recruit, win the North, recruit, win the Big 12, and in most cases if you win the Big 12 then you're playing for a National Championship. And then we're going to recruit."

by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Jan 11, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Last year with everyone young I had no problem with Self letting him figure it out/adjust/etc

This year though we are fighting for championships. I say let him still get minutes but explore other options at the two guard spot. Like I said earlier, maybe start Brady at the two

by KU Grad 08 on Jan 11, 2010 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

TT started horribly,

until he was benched for EJ. Starting with the first (2nd?) benching game, his play went thru the roof for a while. Without any reliable form of outside shot tho, he is just a slower less reliable version of Doug Gottlieb, and will be a liability for the team.

by dagger108 on Jan 12, 2010 3:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Aldrich was a +18?

They lost by 8 pts, meaning KU was outscored by 26 points when he was off the court. Pretty crazy disparity there.

by goingforthecorner on Jan 11, 2010 2:14 PM CST reply actions  

That's not what the rating means

See here for a breakdown of the system Warden uses.

Operation 39-1 is a go. Proceed to target.

by Bensa on Jan 11, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm hoping this game is a lesson

that everything isn’t as easy as some of the beginning games, and, not to mention, that sherron can’t do everything.

"That pitch wasn’t down and in, that pitch was down and up." Tim McCarver

by wrigleyrocker12 on Jan 11, 2010 5:43 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks for welcoming me!

Also maybe its just me but now that I have had time to think about it maybe this was a good loss for these boys. Here me out. Its right before league play on Wed, which means this loss doesnt really mean anything except that it just really sucks. But maybe its just me but I find this team very cocky outside of Sherron, Aldrich, Reed, Morningstar. But the rest of the bunch I believe had gotten a big head on themselves and needed to be brought back down to earth and see that they were beatable by a bunch of walkons and a few schlorships players who really wanted to win.

I also believe this loss will make this team hungry and want to be back at the top. Just like the Michigan St. loss last year right before league play which I think helped em want to win the Big 12 again and prove they were the best. Because like we all know when this team plays like there is no tomorrow they are unbeatable. Just look at the Temple game. Again just my opinion though.

by GVBOY on Jan 11, 2010 6:17 PM CST reply actions  

a loss always feels better...

when the sun comes up in the morning. As Bill Self said in his chat today, you can’t call it a good loss yet until you see how they learn from it. If they do accomplish that…I’m in complete agreement with you that this might have been the perfect time.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Jan 11, 2010 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree on motivation

All week prior to the temple game, all they heard was how Texas should be number one, Temple would knock them off, etc. I don’t think its too much of a coincidence that we’ve played like dog poop ever since we ran train on temple.

When the 08 NATIONAL FREAKING CHAMPION Jayhawks lost… was it 3 of 6? 5? something like that, their focus the rest of the way was scary. I think if anything, this loss will help our players buy more into Self’s preaching of defense and valuing posessions, and motivate em a bit more

by KU Grad 08 on Jan 11, 2010 8:50 PM CST up reply actions  

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