Coaching Loyalty
Obviously I'm with everyone else in terms of disappointment on the season and I'm glad to see in general there isn't a giant hate fueled cry for Mangino's head going on here, but I do have one area of concern.
First off, I've been around some very dark ages of Kansas football so despite the problems this season I still think where we are as a program and where we are headed is a much better place than we've been. With that in mind, I hope no one sees this as an indictment on Mangino or an indication that I'm on the get rid of the guy bandwagon. The same group of people were probably leaders in the build the man a statue bandwagon after 2007.
Anyway on to my point. College coaching staffs and continuity are a huge part of a successful program. Sometimes you have to swallow your pride during bad seasons and realize that if there's more good than bad going on it might be a better move to stay the course. Change comes with a price sometimes. Ask the Huskers after Frank Solich, Iowa State after Dan McCartney, Kansas State following Bill Snyders retirement and I'd bet anyone out in Boulder is just wishing they could find something that works.
We clearly have that at the top. Coach Mangino has turned us into a decent program. We aren't a powerhouse, we aren't competing for national titles and that's fine. We are competing in every game and aiming for bowls most year.
Where I struggle is with the assistants. Since Mangino has been at Kansas it seems a revolving door of assistant coaches and there has always been the assumption that the Big Guy is tough to work for, hard on his assistants and has a big part in assistants moving on. I don't know if this is true or not but it seems reasonable.
There is always going to be a certain amount of turnover but where are the fiercely loyal assistants on Mangino's staff that other staffs have? Where is the continuity in these areas? In business, in life and I would guess in football you are only as good as those you surround yourself with and how much those people believe in your leadership and follow you. This is where I'm beginning to think the disconnect might be at the moment.
Typically at this age a football coach is who he is, so to ask Mangino to change is tough. I really hope though that if this is the case, the big guy reevaluates his approach at the very least due to the way this season has gone. Coach Mangino does a lot of things well, but just like all of us he certainly has his faults. Perhaps this is an area he can improve to provide more consistency.
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I'd agree that continuity is key...
as far as the overall point I think there might be something to it. I don’t know enough about other staffs assistants to say for certain though. I do know that Missouri had some serious continuity on staff and OU has always done pretty well except when losing guys to head jobs.
I think Kansas has just finally started putting the financial resources into our assistants so hopefully that helps with that area of the program going forward.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Great post..
Since Mangino has been at Kansas it seems a revolving door of assistant coaches and there has always been the assumption that the Big Guy is tough to work for, hard on his assistants and has a big part in assistants moving on.
Most definitely true. On average, I’d say he fires one of them in every game we lose. Obviously lets them back once cooler heads prevail, but is notorious for mid-game breakdowns/firings.
Glad to see someone else hears the same things I do.
I thought maybe I was crazy. There was a rumor going around either right before the season or just into it that Tom Sims had been threatened with firing and nearly quit. Hate to be someone who goes on rumors all the time but that’s about all you can get from the program at times. There isn’t a lot of openness. I get that when he was building things but I think what made Mangino successful in turning the program around might be a detriment now.
I was trying to come up with examples of coaches that had changed their approach and Tom Coughlin comes to mind with the Giants. He was always notoriously difficult to play for yet fairly successful. Loosened up a little and went on to win a Super Bowl.
That's what we do at Kansas, we WIN.
by Ghost of Mark Randall on Nov 10, 2009 8:14 AM CST up reply actions
If nothing else, just look at how many have left...
for a lateral movement. We haven’t had many (any) coaches leave for a step up in responsibility. Bigger programs maybe, but never a step up from say receivers coach to OC…or the like.
Meanwhile, we’ve had several leave in lateral moves and the one that really stings is probably Earnest Collins when he left to be the CB coach at UCF. A guy who was coaching in the Big XII as ST coordinator and CB coach left to be just a secondary coach at UCF. That hurts. Meanwhile, after a year at UCF, he was given the defensive coordinator job at Alcorn State for a year and then promoted to head coach for this past year. I’m not saying he’s better or worse than what we have here, but it speaks volumes about how coaches don’t care for working under Mangino.
by hiphopopotamus on Nov 10, 2009 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Beck was the biggest surprise to me
Coach Tim Beck going from KU WR coach to NU WR coach seemed really weird to me, but then I found out that he and Pellini are close.
Coach Dave Doeren was no surprise….he was awesome and got an opportunity at a bigger football program (Wisconsin).
Coach Earnest Collins was a surprise, but didn’t he leave to be closer to family or something like that?
Coach Jimmy Joe Bob just wanted to take his Wildcat tatoo (which never fit in here anyway) back to Mancrappy.
Coach Steve Tovar got canned for piss poor recruiting as I understand it.
Who else?
Sawin' wood
Wasn't Doeren's departure....
an ugly separation. Seems like I recall him making no bones about bashing the program to recruits on the way out. Not sure if it was just a bigger program with him.
Bill Young obviously didn’t leave to retire near a beach since he’s back in Stillwater.
I think sometimes even though one thing is said as to a departure the reality might be different.
Even in Tovar’s instance I think it was labeled as he wanted to pursue other opportunities or something like that even though the common belief is he was shown the door.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
If I recall...
Doeren’s depature was fine……until he started calling some recruits that had already comitted to KU. That’s when it turned ugly. Supposedly that’s a no-no.
Sawin' wood
that could be...
I wasn’t sure on the whole story, I just remember there was some animosity related to recruiting.
Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.
Can't blame Young At All
He had a chance to coach the defense at Da U- perhaps the greatest producer of NFL defensive talent in history. Sure it didn’t work out for him, but that was most definitely an upgrade in terms of prestige.
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Nov 11, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know....
The most criticized coach under Mangino is Clint Bowen…….and he’s been there for 9 years.
That’s an example of continuity.
Sawin' wood
He wasn't really getting criticized until
he stepped into the DC position. But, you may have noticed, at least I have momentarily backed off the heat…for what it’s worth…
Me no likey Clint Bowen.
I dunno what to make out of the whole deal
I mean in the grand scheme of things, we have had the same head coach and offensive coordinator since 2007. Bowen seems to be getting the D into better shape, it sure is playing better.
However, I agree with my respected colleagues opinions that it is fishy that a lot of assistants left for other programs with no promotion. Bill Young was the one that never made sense to me. KU – Miami – Okie State? I mean he passed up returning on a team that just won the orange bowl with 9 of his 11 starters returning. Hmm… odd no?
Young leaving was strange.
But I thought it was for $.
Going from Miami to OSU was a no brainer – OSU is his alma mater and he was pretty open about wanting to finish his career there (remember, the dude is like 150 years old).
Sawin' wood
Really?
He had a chance to coach defense at the place that has more talent in the NFL than any other school, with some of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country out his backdoor. If you’re a defensive coach, wouldn’t you want to go to the place that’s produced Warren Sapp, Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Sean Taylor (RIP)?
That’s like finding it odd that an assistant coach at Southern Illinois or something would want to come work on HCBS’ bench.
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Nov 11, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions

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