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Coaching Philosophy

Coaching philosophy's range from "the players coach" to the "dictator" approach.  The ultimate goal regardless is to get a group of men to bond, play as a team and reach their ultimate potential as individuals.  This ideally leads to success on the field and success later in life. 

In 2001 Kansas made the switch from a fun loving "players coach" in Terry Allen.  Allen is known to pretty much let the players call the shots, do what they pleased and the results speak for themselves.  Were they bonded as a unit? I can't say they were.  Did they play as a team?  Absolutely not.  Did they reach their ultimate potential on the field and as individuals?  I can't speak to players individual lives but I have to think that missteps in the program were clearly keeping Kansas from reaching it's potential regardless of whether that is as an Orange bowl winner or a 6-6 Fort Worth Bowl.  Neither of those were happening with Allen.

Moving on, Mark Mangino is brought in.  Early players say he was intense, very hard on the team but it was understood that this was an effort to weed out the players that weren't serious about playing winning football.

"There is only one sort of discipline, perfect discipline."

- Patton

We've all seen the movies.  Full Metal Jacket comes to mind first.  Break a man down to the lowest common denominator and then rebuild him the way you want him.  I can see where this might trickle into a coaching situation.  Not saying I agree or disagree with it but it clearly has some merit. 

So under the assumption that this is the philosophy of coach Mangino, where did he go wrong?  He clearly broke down and built up a winner.  However now, with things on a slide there seems to be a building army of dissent among his former players and one would assume some currently playing feel the same.

Somewhere along the way coach Mangino made the breakdown personal.  It was no longer the over the top motivational style of a drill seargent, but a personal attack on individuals, their families and life situations.  These were no longer actions meant to drive and create the proper behavior.  In the context of a football program it was uncalled for. 

Secondly, where is the build up.  You've broken a person, a group of men and now you must rebuild them into a cohesive, confident, motivated group.  This needs to happen top to bottom, not just at the top.  Clearly at times we've found 22 guys on offense and defense motivated to play.  It can't be ignored though that special teams and depth have always been an issue.  In any team situation you are only as strong as the weakest link.

"Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory."

- Patton

Are you truly challenging a kid when you tell him he's going to "become and alcoholic like his father" or "I'll send you back to get shot with your homies."  Draw your own conclusions.  I'll leave you with one last thought for the day.

"Always do everything you ask of those you command."

- Once again, Patton

You can absolutely COMMAND respect as a division one coach and you are entitled to that from your players and staff.  However, when you apparently make no effort to show that in return at any point in time it becomes a problem.

Obviously there are those that have spoken on behalf of the man, some who are pretty well respected.  Nick Reid, Jon Cornish, Brandon McAnderson.  By the same token not all of those could even completely agree with his methods.  Add that to the fact that the list is growing in terms of players coming forward and this thing has gotten ugly.

It's sad to see things come to this but it's hard to believe that it isn't just a matter of time at this point.

This doesn't change a thing for me in terms of my thought regarding Jayhawk football however.  I'm a believer in the players we have on the field, I'm a believer in the University as a whole.  If this situation end the way it looks as though it might, there is one person who is responsible not an entire program.  Rock Chalk and on to Austin.

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Comments

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agree...

there’s a balance that has to be achieved. I’d venture so far to say you can even skew to the hardass side more in football. Bill Snyder is known as a pretty hard nose coach…but he clearly get’s the best out of people at the same time.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

I think Bestofthewest is taking Jason Whitlock’s recent columns a little too seriously.

by hunter s. royal on Nov 19, 2009 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

good for you

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I think I'd have to agree

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions  

If he's truly given it his best shot,

which I believe he has, then he can’t be disappointed in himself. The results, maybe, but not himself and his effort.

Sawin' wood - damn, blade just broke

by Rivethead on Nov 19, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Suppose all of this stuff is true for arguments sake

It makes you wonder if its all mangino or somebody he worked under was that way and had mostly good results.My guess if thats the case would be stoops

by Bestofthewest on Nov 19, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Stoops back to Bill Snyder are very hard nosed...

tough coaches. I think coach Mangino just takes it to another level due to a pretty clear history of anger management problems. It’s not unusual for coaches to yell at players, what’s unusual is the confrontational personal nature of what Mangino appears to do on a regular basis.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions  

That assumes he can control his weight

BIG assumption. Many obese people are obese due to a medical condition that’s beyond their control.

Not having ever seen Mangino’s medical records……I can’t say one way or the other.

Sawin' wood - damn, blade just broke

by Rivethead on Nov 19, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm thinking the fat jokes and everything...

have had a negative effect on his life and that leads to most of the problems

by jco8394 on Nov 19, 2009 4:48 PM CST up reply actions  

chubby little napoleon

Blank

by benfunke on Nov 19, 2009 7:53 PM CST up reply actions  

forgot to add

thoughtful and insightful, Denver. Nice work, as usual.

by JayhawkTom on Nov 19, 2009 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

definitely is another side to those stories...

but their are some very upstanding guys that played solid minutes that have also made comments.

Working on an interview with a former player myself. He’s pretty clearly on the fence with what should happen but definitely consistent in describing the pattern just as everyone else has.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I really don't know what to think anymore

This morning I was pissed and siding with Mangino. At this point, I just don’t think I can now. The damage is done, and for our program’s sake, I don’t see how Lew can’t fire him. This will assuredly hurt us in recruitment somewhere and maybe badly if we don’t act fast. If he stays, opposing schools will always use this stuff against us in recruiting battles. I’m mostly worried right now about keeping the top players we have coming in next year, i.e., Keeston Terry, Geneo Grissom and quite a few others. We’ve already got a pretty good class coming in. This sucks.

All in all, KU football can survive because of the KU alums and fans. Yes, a good coach will be very important, but if the fanbase holds strong, it can be a big part of sustaining our success and improvement as a program.

by I need more Esteban on Nov 19, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions  

Right now, I’d have to believe more harm would come if he stays rather than if he goes. Assistants do the bulk of recruiting, the majority of the relationship building. We’ll have turnover once we see where those guys settle in the equation without a doubt, but I’m just not sold on the fact that anyone came here for Mangino alone.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

definitely

and that is pretty much what I was saying, if he stays, schools are going to pounce in and use all this against us which I’m sure some have already done. If Keeston Terry and Geneo Grissom aren’t getting calls today or tomorrow I would be shocked.

by I need more Esteban on Nov 19, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Spoken with both Geneo and Keeston in the past. I think we’ll have an opportunity to keep both, but you are exactly right…their phones were busy yesterday I’m sure.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd be shocked...

If those calls didn’t come on Monday or Tuesday.

Regardless of what the situation is, right now, the change needs to happen very, very fast.

While I’m sure Perkins is salivating at the idea of landing a BIG name (Patterson maybe or Peterson), it is in the best interests of the program to name a new HC in the next few days, not months. If Mangino is fired soon (let’s say before Monday, for argument’s sake), Warriner or Bowen can take over as interim coach, reassure the recruits, and a top-level assistant coach from outside the program can be named before the season ends.

Waiting until after bowl season is nuts, and Perkins knows it. Naming a new (permanent) HC is the only way we have any shot at continuity (with recruits, players not transferring, etc.)

by DCJayhawk0208 on Nov 19, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

naming an interim right now will be essential

naming a successor can’t happen until after regular season’s are complete because bowl season is the first time coaches can be talked to by other programs. I think this is how it goes in college but not positive.

by I need more Esteban on Nov 19, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions  

believe you are correct...

we would likely be able to go out and get someone come early December, plenty of time to circle the wagons in recruiting. Getting rid of Mangino now does the same thing that getting rid of Terry Allen early did…that’s give us time to put feelers out and be ready to act when we can and act quickly.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions  

hmm...Pelini?

There’s something about this with Pelini. If I remember correctly, Dr. Osborne filed paperwork as the coach after the regular season so he could talk to recruits but “named” Pelini as the coach. Pelini split time between Nebraska and LSU before LSU’s national championship game, then went back to coach in the game.

So technically, yes, but I think that an interim coach would allow the same scenario to play out. While the new HC could not technically speak to recruits (because he wouldn’t technically be the coach yet, since he couldn’t coach two teams at the same time and he had obligations to his previous team), the interim HC and the coordinators could certainly sing the new HC’s praises.

Or maybe I opened the bottle of cabernet a little too early today. It’s nice to be the boss and decide when happy hour starts. :)

by DCJayhawk0208 on Nov 19, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Osborne

assisted with recruiting, but in doing so had to pass a NCAA recruiting test before he could perform those duties. Wasn’t anything to do with coaching, but assisting in recruiting.

Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
Twitter!
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by Jon Johnston on Nov 19, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I heard on the radio this afternoon

that other schools were pecking around kansas recruits already.Take it for what its worth,i dont know that it means much really,or it could be really bad for kansas next year recruiting wise,it’s anybodys guess at this point

by Bestofthewest on Nov 19, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure we'll lose some guys...that happens with any change...

just depends who comes in as far as how well the pieces are able to be picked up.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Grrreat

might have happened earlier but I see on front page of yahoo sports section: “Former Kansas Players: Mangino abusive”.

It’s hit the AP, magical

by I need more Esteban on Nov 19, 2009 5:19 PM CST reply actions  

MSN also has it on front page

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 19, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

More players stepping forward in support...

Derek Fine, Mark Simmons both through radio interviews. It’s an interesting situation right now. You have highly successful and respected guys from the program saying they have the utmost respect for the guy.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 5:30 PM CST reply actions  

Someone

is going. Whether it’s Mangino or your athletic director. At this point, there’s no turning back, is there?

Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
Twitter!
cornnation@gmail.com

by Jon Johnston on Nov 19, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

doesn't really seem like it

the way it was handled, there is no way for him to stick around it seems

by I need more Esteban on Nov 19, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions  

and Sweet Lew ain't going anywhere.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 19, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

If I were a kansas fan I think I would be as pissed at Lew as I would be at mangino

He opened this jumbo can of worms,whether he had a choice or not, he hasnt said a word since.

by Bestofthewest on Nov 19, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone...

can be happy with how this was handled. The thing that makes this sad is that everytime Mangino get’s in front of a mic or camera right now he ends up coming off as a determined, confident and very sharp guy. Those speaking against him aren’t necessarily doing the same.

If this is a PR war there have been a lot of swings in momentum in this one.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Hence the Mangino comment

“I may have lost some people around here.”

by JayhawkTom on Nov 19, 2009 7:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Basketball tonight can't come soon enough.

Need a distraction.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 19, 2009 5:49 PM CST reply actions  

810 sports just said 92.7 the fan in salinas

said their sources are telling them there will be a presser tomorrow and Mangino will be let go

by Bestofthewest on Nov 19, 2009 6:05 PM CST reply actions  

Labbadabba will be thrilled to hear that.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 19, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

And now

Jon Kirby of Rivals said there is no press conference set for tomorrow

by jco8394 on Nov 19, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions  

can’t wait for this to be over. Have to say though, Lew already had some enemies in Kansas…this won’t help if it isn’t resolved soon and in a satisfactory manner.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

…shit.

There just went any ability to convince a future coach that Lew would never ever stab a coach in the back at the drop of a hat.

I don't know, I like to think that things started out initially with good intentions, but then we just loused it up. Kind of like intelligence. We have this glorious thing that allowed us to survive for millenia and now we use it to write porn film plots involving pterodactyls. Talk about wasting the gift.

by tequilaprophet on Nov 19, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

obviously

this could get bloodier, although what credibility does that article have?

Who is this John Taylor dude that wrote it?

Go Big Red Nebraska!
Our Cobs Are Bigger Than Yours!
Corn Nation!
Twitter!
cornnation@gmail.com

by Jon Johnston on Nov 19, 2009 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

kind of what I was thinking...

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah true

but I still don’t like the way it sounded

I just want this to be over

by I need more Esteban on Nov 19, 2009 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Lew's really screwed the pooch

in the way this was handled…he could have held off until after next season, but was probably scared to b/c we would probably be good next year and would therefore not have enough ammo…i have to think Lew’s regretting the way this has gone down…he BETTER hit a fucking home run with a new hire.

"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it felt...he lives vicariously...through himself- He is the most interesting man in the world"

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Nov 19, 2009 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

This post makes a lot of sense to me....from Jayhawk Slant msg boards

“Have you considered that Lew’s hand was forced in this issue by those that approached the AD with complaints. Once that happens you must investigate or there could be greater issues in the future. Investigate and document. The documentation may be in MM favor and head off things in the future. The dragging of our Great University Name through the mud has been the media and internet boards, not Lew Perkins. He has issued only one public statement and it was wording carefully. We will never know all of the “facts” of this case. Lew can’t tell you and anyone that does outside a court of law is breaking confidentiality laws. This is a tough time for an AD. I know as I have been through this myself in Lew’s shoes, not at the university level but at a lower level and it is tough not to be able to tell people all of the facts and I grant you that pisses off even your best friends." – wd40

Idk if its ok to post something from there…

by jco8394 on Nov 19, 2009 9:52 PM CST reply actions  

Well except for that fact that Mangino has a laser sighted on Lew anytime someone asks him a question.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 20, 2009 5:48 AM CST up reply actions  

wouldn’t you if your boss was investigating you for something that you thought (correctly or not) was unfounded? especially if you have a self-importance/ego as big as Mangino apparently does.

Blank

by benfunke on Nov 20, 2009 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you for the most part.

I’m just pointing out that Mangino has not hesitated to point in that direction and it makes Lew look like a snake in the grass.

Personally, I think Mangino may have taken his shots a little too publicly. Although he is fighting for his job and a program that he must care deeply about.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 20, 2009 3:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Make up your minds people!

Sheesh some of you say “yeah given what has surfaced he needs to go” then two minutes later “this is BS, its football he didn’t do anything wrong.”

What does everyone really think? I’m seeing more flipflops then a boardwalk.

by KU Grad 08 on Nov 19, 2009 10:02 PM CST reply actions  

You should see...

the slant message boards….It is way worse…I really think he’s gone no matter what…if we keep him it’ll have a negative effect on recruiting now

by jco8394 on Nov 19, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I've been over there a little bit

Just seems like we are all critical of the “media” and we follow it blindly. Players come out and say things negative we go “fire him we have to” then players say he is fair no different from your average coach we all yell “this is BS! He is coaching! Its football.” I dunno, not trying to be a dick to anyone so please don’t be upset RCT peeps.

At this point I think you’re right though, he is on his way out (heard rumors he is in a buyout negotiation possibly? Can anyone confirm this??) so lets just move forward and not dwell on the aspects.

by KU Grad 08 on Nov 19, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions  

it's the emotional rollercoaster we are on...

at the moment. Everytime I’ve watched or listen to coach Mangino speak since this thing has come to light I find myself thinking “damn this guy is sharp and a solid football coach.” Ten minutes later I see a reminder that there is a lot of hatred toward this man among players and it seems best to move on. It’s a tough deal.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 19, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I just don't get

The hate towards Perkins….only thing he’s said is that there’s an investigation underway and everyone assumes he’s out to get Mangino and just trying to make up excuses so he can fire Mangino…I mean good Lord…talk about jumping to conclusions….

by jco8394 on Nov 19, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I have a jump to conclusions mat!

But yeah I agree. I think it stems from 2006 rumors that Lew wanted “his guy” in there. If Perkins was out to get the big man so much I think he may have axed him then.

I think Lew could have framed the whole thing better, but maybe he is being honest. He is hearing a lot of shit and couldn’t possibly give the vote of confidence so he is just doing what he is supposed to do as AD – find out whats going on.

by KU Grad 08 on Nov 19, 2009 10:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, let's see...

Lew came out with his public comment less than an hour before Magino’s weekly press conference. As such, Mangino was blind sided and had to discuss this issue during the PR and not the game against Texas.

Then there is the report from NBC.com that Lew used “text blasting” to call the players meeting on Monday night. Text blasting is a method used by Mangino to communicate with players. As such, many of the players thought that Mangino had called the meeting. They had no idea that it was Lew until they got there. Mangino had no idea the meeting was held until after the fact.

On the surface, it looks like a lot of backstabbing by the AD. Now, can you imagine what a prospective coach must be thinking about coming to work for the guy?

My personal opinion is that madam chancellor needs to clean house. And that means firing Lew and Mark (assuming the internal investigation finds that the forcing players to play injured accusation is valid).

Sawin' wood - damn, blade just broke

by Rivethead on Nov 20, 2009 7:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, NBC is all over Lew on this one.

Really, it seems like just NBC and HipHop are on Lew. All other media outlets seem to be focusing on Mangino. I would take the few that are starting to look at Lew as a good sign for MM. Early on, he was dead. Now people are starting to look through the smoke and figuring out this fire might be arson.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 20, 2009 8:52 AM CST up reply actions  

There is no way we can fire Lew

Despite how poorly this was handled IMO (and I’m kind of in the middle, I think he could have handled it a lot better but at the same time you have to do your job if people are presenting you these things).

What Lew has done for the athletic department since he got here though, I don’t think he’ll be able to be canned. Budget increased a lot, football gotten competitive (even if he didn’t have much to do with it), facilities, fundraising, etc.

by KU Grad 08 on Nov 20, 2009 10:00 AM CST up reply actions  

So...

all quiet? Mangino heading to Austin?

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 20, 2009 10:58 AM CST reply actions  

sounds like he'll be in Austin...

I guess Lew better hope they don’t win this thing or this could become even stickier.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 20, 2009 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Do you have any thoughts on the NBC side of things?

(pointing the finger towards Lew)?

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 20, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Not sure...I think they are looking for something...

not saying Lew has handled this the best but I’m also not sure he had much choice.

Some people are like Slinkies...not really good for anything but they make you smile when pushed down the stairs.

by Owen Kemp on Nov 20, 2009 12:12 PM CST up reply actions  

the choice he had was whether or not to try and shield Mangino

but it appears from the outside as if he did the opposite (or at least subverted Mangino’s ability to prepare and defend himself).

Blank

by benfunke on Nov 20, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Totally agree with this.

Whether or not he had a choice we may never find out. Looks awfully shady though.

I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.

by Warden11 on Nov 20, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

It does look shady....and I think that's the bigger damage

Even if Bernadette forced Lew to go public before Lew really wanted to, now Lew has to do an extra special job of convincing the next coach that it was “special circumstances” and that he’d “never do that to you”.

Something tells me that Strong/Sumlin/Venebles/Holtz are going to be really skeptical.

Sawin' wood - damn, blade just broke

by Rivethead on Nov 20, 2009 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

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