Eliminate the Big 12 North?
From Upon Further Review at the KC Star.
The North is 8-61 vs Tx and OU since 1998. That's pretty bad. However, I also wonder how the other 4 teams in the south do against Tx and OU. Can't be much better, can it?
10 months ago
Warden11
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Haven’t read it yet, but I’m assuming they’re only talking about football? Seems to me there’s a Big 12 North men’s basketball program that does just fine against OU and UT.
OU and UT will always have a recruiting advantage due to history and location. At the end of the day, usually (but not always) it’s the “Jimmies and the Joes, not the X’s and the O’s.” If you wanted to somehow create a Big 12 East vs. Big 12 West, you’re asking for all kinds of problems in destroying important rivalry games. Destroying the Red River Rivalry game would severely hurt the Texas State Fair, and piss off both fan bases. And for what? To get possibly one better game?
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Oct 29, 2009 9:20 AM CDT reply actions
You have to think that any realignment would involve at least one rivalry game for each team (like the SEC)
TX – OU
CU – Neb
Tech – OSU
Baylor – ISU
MU – KU
A&M – KSU
The arrangement doesn’t really matter – just keep one rivalry between divisions, like the SEC does with UF-LSU, UGA-Auburn, etc.
by Texas Wahoo on Oct 29, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Problem with that
My problem with that is that KState is also a big rivalry for us. And I don’t see how anyone would consider Baylor/ISU or aTm/KSU to be a rivalry. And I’m sure Cowboys fans (if they knew how to use the internet) would say OU is a much bigger rival than Tech.
If you were to shift to an East/West alignment, it would probably look like this if you want to maintain geographical integrity:
EAST:
ISU
MU
KU
NU
KSU
aTm
WEST:
Baylor
CU
OU
UT
OSU
TT
The only real rivalry I can think of that this would hurt is CU/ NU. However, this doesn’t really solve the problem, IMO. You’ve still got your current “Big 3” in one division. Maybe aTm becomes a great team with it’s inherent recruiting advantage over the other teams in its division, but who knows.
And if you don’t do it based upon geography, but simply on current trends for teams, your asking for the same problems to rise down the road, as programs naturally ebb and flow
through the years.
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Oct 29, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
"My problem with that is that KState is also a big rivalry for us."
That’s why KU and Kansas State would be in the same division in any breakdown, including the one I wrote above. You would probably keep all the in-state schools in the same division (with the possible exception of Texas, since there are four schools).
Sure, you end up with a couple of teams that have a strange “rivalry game” outside of their division, but that’s just because those teams don’t have that many rivals. Who is Iowa State’s biggest rival? And Baylor? Why not match them up?
Yes, it's talking about football.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Ask and you shall receive...
…the rest of the South is 14-74 against OU and UT since 1998. That’s a .159 winning percentage. By comparison, the North’s percentage is .116. I’ll have to let someone who’s better with numbers than I determine whether that’s a statistically significant difference.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
Whether statistically significant or not
It’s not exactly a wringing endorsement that the Big XII North is on par with the Big XII South, if you exclude the two best teams by far.
The only legitimate reason for splitting up the conferences would be to put Texas and OU in opposite divisions. While Tech and OSU have been better recently, I don’t think the depth of the South is the problem, it’s the fact that Texas/OU have been on top for so long.
No, it's not an endorsement of any kind...
…but nobody right now is even remotely arguing that the North is on par with the South. I checked the numbers, and the North was 18-36 against UT and OU from 1996 to 2003. Granted, those aren’t exactly impressive numbers, either, but there were some putrid ISU and KU teams in that stretch (Mizzou had some clunkers, too). The top three teams in the North at the time — K-State, Nebraska and Colorado — were pretty competitive with UT and OU, posting a combined 14-16 record. And that includes Nebraska’s 1-5 mark against UT during that time period.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
About what I figured, thanks for running the numbers.
I used to work with an old man that told me. Son, every workplace has a dumbass, if you don't have one where you work, then I'm afraid you're it.
Don't overreact
The Big 12 North may not be able to compete with Texas or OU but they do pretty well against the rest of the south.
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very reactionary
it will even out eventually…who thought the Cornholers would be in the predicament that they’re currently in…I actually prefer the way it is b/c it gives all 6 teams a chance at the division title.
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by Home Run Tony Cogan on Oct 29, 2009 9:46 PM CDT reply actions
I feel this to be a proper place
to make any new members aware of the greatest way ever thought of to organize College Football.
lol can't have a CKC without KC - Nicholai Khabibulin (LN21)
I think the real issue is Texas and OU's advantage over the rest of the league
Not just the north. With those two team’s superiority, someone like KU is in pretty dire shape the years we play them, and in good shape when we don’t. It plays too much into how everyone else’s season pans out. The who played who argument always presents itself.
A better way to address this is to let all the Big12 teams play each other. Eliminate non-conference games and let every league team play each other and let the cards fall where they do. Or do this, no title game (it isn’t necessary if all the teams play each other) and cut non-con games to two, or make them pre-season games. How awesome would that be?
I like non-con games...
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Oct 30, 2009 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions
I do too, but
It leaves too much to be decided if one team plays 4 cupcakes and another plays two legit teams. I say lets just do all conference games and two non-con or something to ensure rivarly games that are non-con and etc.
Start scheduling some real teams then, imo.
I like that they punish multiple Division II teams on a schedule now. It should be that way.
I thought you knew that algebra was all razzamatazz. A Globetrotter always saves the good algebra for the final minutes.
by SlamDunkTheFunk on Oct 30, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
How bout this?
You play all league opponents, and the two non-con opponents have to have had a similar record/finish in their division (a BCS division) as you. So its almost like matching up bowl teams. How many sick matchups come early? Every game of the year would be insane, starting right off the bat!
Couple of Other Ideas to Shoot Out There...
1. Dump Baylor, go to a Big 10 type schedule. I do love their track program, though, and I hate to be one of those people that only thinks about the revenue sports, because I know how hard those athletes all work, regardless of the attention they receive for it.
2. Get rid of the set rotations of teams from the other divisions. Obviously KU probably gets most screwed by it, but is there any particular reason why we have to play OU, UT, and TT for two straight years, then don’t see any of them for the next two years? Why can’t your three opponents from the other division just be randomly selected before the season? Hell, create lottery balls, put it on a live pay-per-view webcast, and the conference could probably make a nice little profit, or even donate the money to charity or something. I really feel like a more random schedule could lead to a bit more parity between the two divisions.
by KennyGregoryRockThaCradle on Oct 30, 2009 1:44 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
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